Air Cadets grounded?

[Engines]

Gents,

Might I request some help from the excellent PPrune community?

I'm trying to put together a timeline and some reasons for how the ACO glider fleet came to get where it has ended up, and there are (not surprisingly) some fairly big gaps in my knowledge. So, could anyone help me with the following:

1, When the 145 strong fleet of Vikings and Vigilants was purchased? Previous post indicated that it was a 'rush job' to use an in-year underspend - can anyone tell me what year that was?

2. Can anyone confirm who issued the Certificates of Design for the aircraft - Grob or Marshalls?

3. Can anyone tell me who issued the first editions of the RTS for these aircraft?

4. Was a repair manual (Topic 6) actually issued for the aircraft?

I'd be really grateful for any answers, PMs are fine if preferred.

Best Regards as ever to all out there on PPrune who care,

Engines

[WE992]

Viking deliveries commenced in Oct 85.

[VX275]

The Grob 109B and Scheibe SF36a were subject to a pre-view assessment at A&AEE in 1989 against a Specification issued in December 1988. The Grob was considered to be by far the better aircraft. (not helped by Slingsby presenting the Scheibe in a less than presentable state. Following that Vigilants were delivered in 1990 with Initial CA Release being issued in March 1990.

[ATFQ]

Locations of 10 Volunteer Gliding Squadrons from 2019

Please could someone help me out. Is the following future laydown of the 10 Volunteer Gliding Squadrons (Viking) that will remain - post retirement of the Vigilant in 2019 - still correct? 621 was at Hullavington but I don't know where its new home will be.

614 - Wethersfield (until 2020)
615 - Kenley
621 - ?
622 - Upavon
626 - Predannack
632 - Ternhill
637 - Little Rissington
644 - Syerston
645 - Topcliffe
661 - Kirknewton

[Arclite01]

621 Merryfield

[jmtw2]

Originally Posted by Arclite01

621 Merryfield

and no announcement as yet on the choice of airfield for 614 from 2020 onwards.

[AutoBit]

Things may have varied within the various VGSs, but when I did my first solo circa 95/96 the instructor back taxied us down the strip after my final dual cct, jumped out and then told me not to taxi back. After landing he appeared at the side of the a/c and jumped in and taxied us back. That's not to say I never taxied, just not on the first solo.

[Arclite01]

In 1981 on the Venture we did the whole thing - taxied from the last 'full stop' - did the circuit and taxied back with the briefing being 'if you see me walking back - pick me up !!' (Thanks Flt Lt Tapson BTW.......... !!)

Arc

[biggles111]

645 - is a Vigilant unit not Viking

[ATFQ]

Originally Posted by biggles111

645 - is a Vigilant unit not Viking

But due to become a Viking unit when Vigilant retires from service in 2019?

[Arclite01]

I would assume that all the remaining Vigilant Squadrons will be re-equipped with the Viking when the Motorgliders are finally retired. Unless there is another major rethink of motorglider policy within the ACO (don't rule it out).

Bearing in mind that currently 3 years is a long time in politics (and a lifetime in terms of Unit basing policy), The real question is about the suitability of the various sites that currently house the Motorglider Squadrons for Winch Launch use, and the future of the sites..........

614 - Wethersfield (until 2020) after that who knows. I wouldn't rule out Honington, I would have said Marham but the arrival of JSF precludes that, and Wattisham (which rumours suggest is closing). Possibly closed altogether - although Debden may be a possible as an interim (it doesn't close until 2031)
615 - Kenley (No Change)
621 - Merryfield moved in from Hullavington (No Change in Glider type)
622 - Upavon (No Change unless the Army leave which means it will be part of a sell off IMHO)
626 - Predannack (No Change)
632 - Ternhill linked to whatever happens at Shawbury, not sure that choppers like the remains of winch launch wire distributed around the field. Used to be a winch launch site EONS ago so maybe........ if not why not Cosford ?
637 - Little Rissington - Could be suitable as a Winch launch site but prime asset for sell-off IMHO
644 - Syerston (No Change)
645 - Topcliffe - linked to whatever happens at Linton with Flying Training and MFTS. If that closes then the future of Topcliffe will almost certainly se the airfield sold off (a la Hullavington) but the Barracks retained (again IMHO). Certainly big enough to be a Winch Launch site.
661 - Kirknewton (No Change)

Just my two pennyworth

Arc

[dervish]

The discussion here has moved on from why was the fleet grounded, to acceptance and disposal of assets. Those responsible for this debacle will be smiling.

[Shaft109]

S

How about -

CGS - Syerston

North - Topcliffe

South - L Rissington

End

[Arclite01]

More likely in that scenario:

Regional Gliding Centres
CGS/644 - Syerston (Midlands)
615 Kenley (South East)
621 Merryfield (South West)
645 Topcliffe (North)
661 Kirknewton (Scotland)

Nothing for Wales and NI (typical) - all their Gliding done as continuous courses at ACCGS.

Arc

[Opsbeatch]

Arclite01 - Ref Debden, think that's a non starter due to the current tenants having placed a bomb dump in the middle of the main drag...

OB

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by Opsbeatch

Arclite01 - Ref Debden, think that's a non starter due to the current tenants having placed a bomb dump in the middle of the main drag...

OB

Yet another way the army manages to ruin perfectly good airfields.

[biggles111]

Originally Posted by ATFQ

But due to become a Viking unit when Vigilant retires from service in 2019?

Only if Linton closes and Topcliffe ceases to be a RLG. If not Topcliffe will not be a winch launched unit due to the FOD issues and the amount of airfield furniture apparently

[Arclite01]

I'm always surprised that there isn't a caveat that says that 'Airfield infrastructure must remain useable' when they transfer bases to the Army. Almost without fail the Army come in and destroy the airfield site. Almost so as it can never be taken back into RAF use. To my knowledge they have done this sort of damage of one type or another at:

Swanton Morley
Watton
Driffield
Hullavington
Brawdy
Lyneham
Leconfield
Kirton
Thorney Island
Bassingbourne
Catterick
Kinloss
and now Debden..............

Scandalous destruction of taxpayers assets, not that they care of course............

Arc

[Pegasus107]

Arclite01 - not factually accurate as Kinloss is available for AT a/c, Watton was used up to recently for VGS work, Bassingbourn has just degraded due to cost of keeping to flying status not necessarily due to Army involvement.

The big problem is the cost to keep runways up to a certain standard. Who pays? DIO, who look after the real estate, don't have the money as they can't keep what they do have up to a decent standard, let alone a strip of tarmac that the RAF might use.

For example, a strip of tarmac not a million miles from a big lake in Rutlandshire, hasn't been used in 6 years but its still in good state, good enough for anything that the RAF could throw at it. Just needs a sweep and spray the weeds.

But who pays........ Army? No, they don't have the need of a runway. RAF? No, its not part of their empire anymore. DIO? No, they can't afford it. But if the work was done, it would be the taxpayer who picks up the tab at the end of the day.

[Arclite01]

Peg

Years ago these would have been placed on 'Care & Maintenance' - I'm not even sure that exists any more....... 'Scrap it and Sell it' seems to be the new policy.

I agree with your post BTW............

Arc