Air Cadets grounded?
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To be quite honest, once solo, Air Cadet gliding could not really offer anything anyway. If you can get your young Air Cadet son to one of the RAFGSA clubs then I am sure they would be delighted to take him to the next level of gliding - RAF Gliding & Soaring Association - Homepage. When the Air Cadet competition fleet was binned a few years ago* the only way to fly 'hot ships' in competition was via the RAFGSA. Also, if he were to join the RAF at any rank then the RAFGSA can take him forward to the very heights of national/international gliding competition if he has the dedication and aptitude - regardless of branch or trade.
I wish the best of luck to him...
LJ
*= Kestrel TX1 and Valiant TX1 were Janus C and ASW19 competition gliders.
To be quite honest, once solo, Air Cadet gliding could not really offer anything anyway. If you can get your young Air Cadet son to one of the RAFGSA clubs then I am sure they would be delighted to take him to the next level of gliding - RAF Gliding & Soaring Association - Homepage. When the Air Cadet competition fleet was binned a few years ago* the only way to fly 'hot ships' in competition was via the RAFGSA. Also, if he were to join the RAF at any rank then the RAFGSA can take him forward to the very heights of national/international gliding competition if he has the dedication and aptitude - regardless of branch or trade.
I wish the best of luck to him...
LJ
*= Kestrel TX1 and Valiant TX1 were Janus C and ASW19 competition gliders.
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 28th Sep 2016 at 11:45.
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My son is a competent, solo, 15 year old glider pilot. He is also an Air Cadet.
What opportunities now exist for him to further his gliding within the organisation?
What opportunities now exist for him to further his gliding within the organisation?
Cats
In answer to the original question, the last time I looked the BGA wasn't part of the 'organisation'?
Anyway, the RAFGSA is going to be a lot cheaper for the parents of a 'uniformed cadet' than with a civvy BGA club. RAF Gliding & Soaring Association - What will it cost?
In answer to the original question, the last time I looked the BGA wasn't part of the 'organisation'?
Anyway, the RAFGSA is going to be a lot cheaper for the parents of a 'uniformed cadet' than with a civvy BGA club. RAF Gliding & Soaring Association - What will it cost?
Bin 2FTS
The 'Gliding' part of the ATC is a lost cause as are the top people supposed to be running it.
Time to bin 2FTS and let the GSA have the resources. There are no reasons why some of the VGS system could not be 'reborn' as feeder units under the GSA.
The whole (Uniform only 'no staff Cadets) scenario just shows how the Corps have completely lost its way with this, and why the cretons in charge should not be allowed to continue (and be paid) just to paper over a complete foul up of decisions and leadership. The GSA (not just RAF) have the tech ability and the people who actually make things happen;plus as alluded, have the ability to progress pilots to a higher level. Public money should not be poured into the organisation that has failed to provide a service, and has no ability or leadership to sort itself out.
Time to bin 2FTS and let the GSA have the resources. There are no reasons why some of the VGS system could not be 'reborn' as feeder units under the GSA.
The whole (Uniform only 'no staff Cadets) scenario just shows how the Corps have completely lost its way with this, and why the cretons in charge should not be allowed to continue (and be paid) just to paper over a complete foul up of decisions and leadership. The GSA (not just RAF) have the tech ability and the people who actually make things happen;plus as alluded, have the ability to progress pilots to a higher level. Public money should not be poured into the organisation that has failed to provide a service, and has no ability or leadership to sort itself out.
Last edited by POBJOY; 29th Sep 2016 at 08:15.
Just a thought, might have to look at the Constitution of the GSA (ie can they "legally" fly essentially civilians (ATC cadets) given the rules as I recall them on non-public funded activities and grants from Nuffield Trust, etc) to go that route, although it seems to have much to commend it as a way forward
Air Cadets at Gliding Clubs
We have a number of ATC cadets flying at our gliding club, their flying paid for by the bank of Mum and Dad. They essentially forget the fact that they are in the ATC, having been totally disappointed and unimpressed with this continuing debacle.
As far as the club is aware they are civilian members of the club, albeit juniors who benefit from discounted flying.
They are so committed to want to fly and this route is (sadly for them) the only route open.
As a club we welcome these enthusiastic youngsters and hope they will continue to grow with the club and support us well into the future.
As far as the club is aware they are civilian members of the club, albeit juniors who benefit from discounted flying.
They are so committed to want to fly and this route is (sadly for them) the only route open.
As a club we welcome these enthusiastic youngsters and hope they will continue to grow with the club and support us well into the future.
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Cats
In answer to the original question, the last time I looked the BGA wasn't part of the 'organisation'?
Anyway, the RAFGSA is going to be a lot cheaper for the parents of a 'uniformed cadet' than with a civvy BGA club. RAF Gliding & Soaring Association - What will it cost?
In answer to the original question, the last time I looked the BGA wasn't part of the 'organisation'?
Anyway, the RAFGSA is going to be a lot cheaper for the parents of a 'uniformed cadet' than with a civvy BGA club. RAF Gliding & Soaring Association - What will it cost?
Cats
Fairy snuff, me old - some clubs are a lot cheaper than others. I guess you would also have to take into account travelling costs to get to a GSA club versus a more expensive local civvy club as well. Although you would benefit as a youngster in other ways if you want to join any of the 3 services in the future by flying with any of the Service gliding clubs (the army and navy as well as the air force ones).
LJ
Fairy snuff, me old - some clubs are a lot cheaper than others. I guess you would also have to take into account travelling costs to get to a GSA club versus a more expensive local civvy club as well. Although you would benefit as a youngster in other ways if you want to join any of the 3 services in the future by flying with any of the Service gliding clubs (the army and navy as well as the air force ones).
LJ
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Sky sports
To answer your question re opportunities to glide WITHIN the cadets the answer is, IMHO, very little if at all. I suspect where you may try and take him depends as much on geography as anything else.
One thing to bear in mind is that whether he goes to a BGA or GSA club they are just that ie. clubs. The VGS organisation was run on military lines with the staff regularly checked by "trappers" from CGS/CFS. In my opinion that gave them a very different feel to a club environment and was an invaluable indoctrination regarding airmanship etc which could be useful if he's contemplating a professional aviation career. Yes I know that is a tad contentious and I am not suggesting that clubs are unsafe just that the mindset is probably different. Not wrong just different.
Which brings me to the VGS staff themselves. What they have needed, but have not received, is anything like the sort of info that one could expect in this digital age. Would it be so difficult to brief them the latest news eg Topcliffe recommencing ops? It seems so and CGB rightly reminds us what the "V" in VGS stands for!
MC
To answer your question re opportunities to glide WITHIN the cadets the answer is, IMHO, very little if at all. I suspect where you may try and take him depends as much on geography as anything else.
One thing to bear in mind is that whether he goes to a BGA or GSA club they are just that ie. clubs. The VGS organisation was run on military lines with the staff regularly checked by "trappers" from CGS/CFS. In my opinion that gave them a very different feel to a club environment and was an invaluable indoctrination regarding airmanship etc which could be useful if he's contemplating a professional aviation career. Yes I know that is a tad contentious and I am not suggesting that clubs are unsafe just that the mindset is probably different. Not wrong just different.
Which brings me to the VGS staff themselves. What they have needed, but have not received, is anything like the sort of info that one could expect in this digital age. Would it be so difficult to brief them the latest news eg Topcliffe recommencing ops? It seems so and CGB rightly reminds us what the "V" in VGS stands for!
MC
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After Solo - the future was.........
Air Cadet gliding could not really offer anything (post solo)anyway
The VGS offered good hard working Cadets post solo, the chance to become a Staff Cadet - lots of hard work, lots more flying and the chance to become a Graded Pilot - either G2 or G1 - the latter of which entitled the FSC to legally carry Cadets for the purpose of Air Experience but with an element of basic flying training.
Many such FSC's went on to become Service and Airline pilots and some remained so loyal to their roots that they regularly came back to fly and assist - I can think of at least two without any thought process - one a currently serving RAF Wg Cdr, and the other a former RN helicopter pilot who gave many many days of service on top of his service commitment.
Thus it is just not true to say there was nothing post solo - if you were talented and not just passable, there was a huge future and "lead-in" to higher things.
After Solo Progress
Enigma You are quite correct;but the system has been slowly 'culled' over many years.
Going from 3 to one solo was hardly progress and the organisation should have seen a big red light then.
The whole CFS / 2FTS scenario has also been quite useless at promoting the situation and became a 'job' that did not really exist or was needed.
AS has now been ably demonstrated the only real expertise was with the Schools/Squadrons and they became victims of an ever increasing bureaucratic system that lost sight of the reals aims.
No one with experience of a well run 'hands on' school could be taken in with the added nonsense of someone checking 'stitching' and quite frankly i am surprised that this type of non job was allowed to pervade the coal face.
It summed up the complete loss of what the organisation did and where it was going.
Of course the blame for this has to lie with the well paid (full time) uniformed
system that had no idea of what they were doing or how well the Volunteer element had coped with an ever increasing 'box ticking' mentality rather than capability.The Staff Cadet system was an unique set up that did not need some F...W... to interfere with and as alluded the standards and progress was a major plus point for the Corps. The fact that in its 75th year ATC Gliding had gone (in real terms) must be the yardstick by which we judge the poor leadership and inabilty of those in charge .
No amount of Twatter and Facelesssbook will change the facts;they killed the organisation and no amount of PR can hide the facts.Leadership Leadership Leadership was needed and has been lacking for years.
Going from 3 to one solo was hardly progress and the organisation should have seen a big red light then.
The whole CFS / 2FTS scenario has also been quite useless at promoting the situation and became a 'job' that did not really exist or was needed.
AS has now been ably demonstrated the only real expertise was with the Schools/Squadrons and they became victims of an ever increasing bureaucratic system that lost sight of the reals aims.
No one with experience of a well run 'hands on' school could be taken in with the added nonsense of someone checking 'stitching' and quite frankly i am surprised that this type of non job was allowed to pervade the coal face.
It summed up the complete loss of what the organisation did and where it was going.
Of course the blame for this has to lie with the well paid (full time) uniformed
system that had no idea of what they were doing or how well the Volunteer element had coped with an ever increasing 'box ticking' mentality rather than capability.The Staff Cadet system was an unique set up that did not need some F...W... to interfere with and as alluded the standards and progress was a major plus point for the Corps. The fact that in its 75th year ATC Gliding had gone (in real terms) must be the yardstick by which we judge the poor leadership and inabilty of those in charge .
No amount of Twatter and Facelesssbook will change the facts;they killed the organisation and no amount of PR can hide the facts.Leadership Leadership Leadership was needed and has been lacking for years.
Well said POBJOY.
Although I didn't join the RAF in the end after being a P2 Grade Pilot staff cadet* (nowadays a G1), I did join NATS (actually called NATCS in those days) and had an interesting career mostly at Farnborough, keeping my association with the cadets going and eventually becoming a Squadron Commander.
Had it not been for my experiences in Air Cadet gliding I would never have thought of air traffic control as a career.
* They tried to make me a 'C' Cat instructor but I hadn't got the patience!!
Although I didn't join the RAF in the end after being a P2 Grade Pilot staff cadet* (nowadays a G1), I did join NATS (actually called NATCS in those days) and had an interesting career mostly at Farnborough, keeping my association with the cadets going and eventually becoming a Squadron Commander.
Had it not been for my experiences in Air Cadet gliding I would never have thought of air traffic control as a career.
* They tried to make me a 'C' Cat instructor but I hadn't got the patience!!
To continue the " lost " theme... What many fail to appreciate is how the progression of a 16 year old tyro was nurtured by a cheap, effort-rewarded and progressive system the Air Cadet gliding organisation was.
What I cannot understand is,....WHO decided to F it up?
Answers please...
OAP
What I cannot understand is,....WHO decided to F it up?
Answers please...
OAP
Sorry Enigma, I agree that there is some progression possible, but not really advancing flying skills; I don't believe that flying the Grob Acro Twin as a FSC is allowing them to realise their full potential. That role should have belonged to the ASW19s and the Janus Cs that were binned in 2000 from the Air Cadet Comp Fleet. They will bring on a glider pilot through to Gold with Diamonds if flown properly - the Viking will struggle to get to Silver. Being a FSC isn't really a gliding achievement in my humble opinion, it's more of a leadership/supervisory achievement.
LJ
LJ
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Leon, I agree. To me progress in gliding is a Silver C (5 hours duration, 1,000m height gain, 50m XC flight in 3 flights or fewer), followed by Gold & possibly Diamonds. However on the day I did my 50k I could have done it in a Junior, which is pretty similar performance to the Vikings. The point really is going well out of glide range of home, though some Scottish 50k flights in wave are in theory never out of glide range!
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In my club we operate a Gliding Scholarship Scheme where we take around 6 students from the local comprehensive school and train them to solo each year with successful completion being 3 solo flights (sound familiar?). They can then go on to Bronze/LAPL(S) standard on an assisted scheme where we contribute around 50% to the cost.
At present we have 3 disillusioned ATC cadets under training, one of who has just solo'ed. They also drive our vehicles, just like 'proper' staff cadets did and, once solo, drive the winches.
As a former Staff Cadet (616) then C.I from 1959 to '64 it is, for me, particularly sad to see the way the Air Cadets (should now be Ground Cadets!) has gone, but the civilian clubs can have a lot to offer, especially if they embrace the need for some sort of positive assistance to the potential young pilots via grants, sponsorship and patronage from local businesses.
At present we have 3 disillusioned ATC cadets under training, one of who has just solo'ed. They also drive our vehicles, just like 'proper' staff cadets did and, once solo, drive the winches.
As a former Staff Cadet (616) then C.I from 1959 to '64 it is, for me, particularly sad to see the way the Air Cadets (should now be Ground Cadets!) has gone, but the civilian clubs can have a lot to offer, especially if they embrace the need for some sort of positive assistance to the potential young pilots via grants, sponsorship and patronage from local businesses.