Air Cadets grounded?
Weston
Chev Runway is now the site of entrance road to development. The 'Tower' and Helicopter museum are at the original 'civvy' airport base right by the road to what was RAF Locking. The original wartime shadow factory site is intact and houses a variety of units. (if you close your eyes you can hear the Beaufighters running up).
Without a proper grass management scheme gliding became difficult and even the civvy club (the last users) found it a problem with the newer glass ships.
On my last flying visit in the 80's (mag problem) it was a 'swaying' sea of green.
Back on thread if the Membury 'thing' is true then it just confirms the complete
'loosing of the plot' by those in charge and why there should be a mega 'change' of those who are guiding the system. (misguiding).
No doubt they are working hard on the script for the press release to cover A....
(Air Cadet Gliding 'SAVED' by heroic engineering efforts from 'The Team'). Honours and medal list to follow.
Without a proper grass management scheme gliding became difficult and even the civvy club (the last users) found it a problem with the newer glass ships.
On my last flying visit in the 80's (mag problem) it was a 'swaying' sea of green.
Back on thread if the Membury 'thing' is true then it just confirms the complete
'loosing of the plot' by those in charge and why there should be a mega 'change' of those who are guiding the system. (misguiding).
No doubt they are working hard on the script for the press release to cover A....
(Air Cadet Gliding 'SAVED' by heroic engineering efforts from 'The Team'). Honours and medal list to follow.
The release of the Membury data and the '70 gliders' it will support seems to confirm that not all Vikings are recoverable. That chimes with my rumour that 70-75 Vikings will return. That's not enough for the Vigilant VGS and so I also still believe that only a proportion of Vigilants will return (25-40%). Best case with those numbers would be ~15 VGSs returning to flying and worst case will be a meagre 10 - less than half they started out with.
Why this information is so very 'hush hush' is beyond me - it most definately is NOT of National importance for the main Defence tasks. Now that information is coming out through newspaper articles like this on planning, then it is time for the VGS volunteers to be told. Otherwise, there will only be more vociferous accusations of incompetence within the management to come - I am not talking about a somewhat lowly Gp Capt but the wider RAF Senior Leadership Team, the MOD and the Ministers who also know about this. Trying to hide around the MOD Footrpint Reviews just does not cut it with me - you can announce closures, like they have with Hullavington, without giving away the wider plan. Out of interest, just because Hullavington is shutting it doesn't mean that the resident VGS won't be rebased elsewhere! Likewise, announcing the closure of a VGS does not necessarily mean the closure/disposal of the estate that they fly from!
The latest rumour is that an announcement will be made next week around 26 Feb. Let's hope so as this debacle is turning sour very quickly.
The B Word
Why this information is so very 'hush hush' is beyond me - it most definately is NOT of National importance for the main Defence tasks. Now that information is coming out through newspaper articles like this on planning, then it is time for the VGS volunteers to be told. Otherwise, there will only be more vociferous accusations of incompetence within the management to come - I am not talking about a somewhat lowly Gp Capt but the wider RAF Senior Leadership Team, the MOD and the Ministers who also know about this. Trying to hide around the MOD Footrpint Reviews just does not cut it with me - you can announce closures, like they have with Hullavington, without giving away the wider plan. Out of interest, just because Hullavington is shutting it doesn't mean that the resident VGS won't be rebased elsewhere! Likewise, announcing the closure of a VGS does not necessarily mean the closure/disposal of the estate that they fly from!
The latest rumour is that an announcement will be made next week around 26 Feb. Let's hope so as this debacle is turning sour very quickly.
The B Word
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That the facilities at Membury (or, elsewhere) are subject to a planning application signifies that there will be a delay (planning applications typically take several months to resolve) after which there needs to be a construction phase which is unlikely to be 'overnight'.
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It looks like the thoughts above about 70 Vikings might be a bit wide of the mark unless there are going to be two servicing centres across the country. This link clearly says "......upto 48 Viking T Mk1....."
https://www.tenders4u.co.uk/permission_denied/41200
https://www.tenders4u.co.uk/permission_denied/41200
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Jumping to conclusions ?
I think some of you are jumping to conclusions on the basis of a round figure being used in a planning application.
The number of recoverable Vikings rather depends on how good you are at fixing gliders, the current support contract holder has had years to maintain the fleet for and now the MoD finds it has to contract in help from Babcock (& associated companies) to help out.
The number of recoverable Vikings rather depends on how good you are at fixing gliders, the current support contract holder has had years to maintain the fleet for and now the MoD finds it has to contract in help from Babcock (& associated companies) to help out.
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A and C, the link above your post seems to be a tender document, not a planning application. It even names OC 2FTS. Apologies if you are referring to other posts.
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Lightbluefootprint
I was referring to the planning application ( see he link in post #1656 ) rather than the posted tender document.
As to the tender document I think the MoD having had a contractor(s) fail to deliver the goods in the past split the contracts so they are not stuck with a failing contractor for the whole 70+ gliders........... Once bitten ..... etc !
As to the tender document I think the MoD having had a contractor(s) fail to deliver the goods in the past split the contracts so they are not stuck with a failing contractor for the whole 70+ gliders........... Once bitten ..... etc !
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"The application can be viewed in full and commented upon by visiting West Berkshire Council website’s planning section and using the reference 16/00142/OUTMAJ"
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Air Cadets Grounded
POBJOY. I reply to your earlier, on June 8th 1961 !!! I aerotowed a Prefect from St Eval to Halesland, with Freddie Hillman as the towee. We had arranged that if we were running short of fuel by the time we overflew Christchurch, I would cast him off. But I decided we could indeed make the whole distance and pressed on- much to the discomfort of Freddie, who by then was freezing and seized up on the controls. JP.
It must have been Easter 64 we aerotowed 2 x T21s from Cranwell to W-S-M for a 10 day gliding camp. I was second dickey in one of them, wearing 2 flying suits a cloth inner and a Mk1 bonedome. It was still numbingly cold. Mike Johnson was one of the tug pilots, and we diverted into a disused airfield, ISTR Weston Zoyland, to refuel the Chippies from the fuel carried illegally in jerricans in the second seat in the tugs. It rained virtually the whole 10 days.
Halesland Tales
JP & Woo Thats what the ATC 'WAS' all about and of course quite mini epics in their own right.
No doubt all arranged on the back of an envelope and i love the 'jerry can' bit; (still doing that).
This is why the thread has so much input from those who know how capable the organisation was at organising 'itself' when the need arose.
A long barge tow is hard work at any time but the scenery en route spectacular even if progress is slow.
JP i do not think Christchurch would have been en-route do you mean Chivenor !
My first ever aero tow was an unofficial event provided by a Navy T-Moth.
This was a 'check' in a Mk3 and then a couple in the Prefect.My next one was in a T53 at Swanton. (no one ever noticed the 'Navy' bit)
No doubt all arranged on the back of an envelope and i love the 'jerry can' bit; (still doing that).
This is why the thread has so much input from those who know how capable the organisation was at organising 'itself' when the need arose.
A long barge tow is hard work at any time but the scenery en route spectacular even if progress is slow.
JP i do not think Christchurch would have been en-route do you mean Chivenor !
My first ever aero tow was an unofficial event provided by a Navy T-Moth.
This was a 'check' in a Mk3 and then a couple in the Prefect.My next one was in a T53 at Swanton. (no one ever noticed the 'Navy' bit)
Gentleman Aviator
to refuel the Chippies from the fuel carried illegally in jerricans
No doubt all arranged on the back of an envelope and i love the 'jerry can' bit; (still doing that).
This is why the thread has so much input from those who know how capable the organisation was at organising 'itself' when the need arose
This is why the thread has so much input from those who know how capable the organisation was at organising 'itself' when the need arose
Small step methinks from "illegal jerricans" to unrecorded modifications and repairs.
And you wonder why MAA got involved?
Teeteringhead
My understanding is that the Vikings and Vigilants are grounded because of issues surrounding maintenance and airworthiness. VGS staff have nothing to do with either of those areas.
As for the events described by POBJOY et al it is obvious, to me at least, that they happened a long time ago and do not reflect the reality of the current environment. That is not, repeat not, a criticism but things were just different in society as a whole with respect to risk. We all did things unthinkable now - going on trips sans seat belts in the back of a soft top Land Rover for example.
The real issue here is how and why did the RAF, its support staff and contractors end up with the fleet being grounded. Also, I believe that the whole organisation was being scrutinised after the tragic deaths of the three cadets in the AEF accidents. No system or organisation is perfect but I honestly think that the VGSs delivered safe and professional training over many decades. Sorry for the thread drift.
BBK
My understanding is that the Vikings and Vigilants are grounded because of issues surrounding maintenance and airworthiness. VGS staff have nothing to do with either of those areas.
As for the events described by POBJOY et al it is obvious, to me at least, that they happened a long time ago and do not reflect the reality of the current environment. That is not, repeat not, a criticism but things were just different in society as a whole with respect to risk. We all did things unthinkable now - going on trips sans seat belts in the back of a soft top Land Rover for example.
The real issue here is how and why did the RAF, its support staff and contractors end up with the fleet being grounded. Also, I believe that the whole organisation was being scrutinised after the tragic deaths of the three cadets in the AEF accidents. No system or organisation is perfect but I honestly think that the VGSs delivered safe and professional training over many decades. Sorry for the thread drift.
BBK
Last edited by BBK; 19th Feb 2016 at 09:59. Reason: Spelling.
Gentleman Aviator
A fair call Wander00, and exactly correct. But that was then .......
But my point was really that the world has changed - whether you agree or not is not going to change it back! - and my feeling is that the VGS world is still - in some part and in some places - adhering to that culture of bygone days.
When I think of some of the things we did in the regular RAF flying world ......
..... I'm grateful that (more by luck than good judgement probably) I'm now an old pilot, not a bold pilot.
In the old days, the (flying) Sqn Cdr was God, who could just about do what he liked. No longer so .........
[Edited to add: you too are right BBK, but it seems that some posters here believe it would all be fine and dandy if we went back to the good (sic) old days.]
But my point was really that the world has changed - whether you agree or not is not going to change it back! - and my feeling is that the VGS world is still - in some part and in some places - adhering to that culture of bygone days.
When I think of some of the things we did in the regular RAF flying world ......
..... I'm grateful that (more by luck than good judgement probably) I'm now an old pilot, not a bold pilot.In the old days, the (flying) Sqn Cdr was God, who could just about do what he liked. No longer so .........
[Edited to add: you too are right BBK, but it seems that some posters here believe it would all be fine and dandy if we went back to the good (sic) old days.]
Last edited by teeteringhead; 19th Feb 2016 at 10:01. Reason: Response to BBK
TTH
I agree and we cannot nor should we seek to turn the clock back. I have enormous respect for POBJOY and his colleagues as it was their generation that taught me to fly. We all share the frustration because if this problem isn't fixed soon then, in my humble opinion, there won't be the volunteers around to man the new VGSs. Just my two penn'orth.
BBK
I agree and we cannot nor should we seek to turn the clock back. I have enormous respect for POBJOY and his colleagues as it was their generation that taught me to fly. We all share the frustration because if this problem isn't fixed soon then, in my humble opinion, there won't be the volunteers around to man the new VGSs. Just my two penn'orth.
BBK
Gentleman Aviator
I've been told that the fix was agreed with CAS before Christmas, and it's been awaiting the "Ministerial Tick" since then. 
Whatever it is I do hope we know soon, it's only human to invent rumours to fill an information vacuum.
And I must agree about the "influence" of the VGSs - my 3 solo launches in a Mk 3 way back when led - pretty directly, via a Flying Scholarship - to 30 + years and 5000-odd hours of regular RAF piloting.......
Whatever it is I do hope we know soon, it's only human to invent rumours to fill an information vacuum.
And I must agree about the "influence" of the VGSs - my 3 solo launches in a Mk 3 way back when led - pretty directly, via a Flying Scholarship - to 30 + years and 5000-odd hours of regular RAF piloting.......
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Air Cadets Grounded
What we had in those far off days was heaps of experience. The instructors at No 1 Gliding Centre Hawkinge claimed that between them they had flown every aircraft in the RAF inventory- and the flt lt OC held a DSO from the campaign in Burma. We cannot bring all that back of course. JP