Air Cadets grounded?
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I enjoyed my 1500 or so launches in T31 and T21s at Hendon and Bovingdon as a Cdt, Staff Cdt and CI prior to an RAF career spanning 39 years as a pilot. A bit of research ( https://members.gliding.co.uk/wp-con...312150_t31.pdf ) shows that, officially at least the T31 is non aerobatic and prohibited from cloud flying. I did witness some sporting wing overs and steep turns but never saw a T31 looped. The Barge However
was a different story!
was a different story!
was a different story!
was a different story!
I once watched a certain staff cadet who became a BGA National Coach (CR) do 14 consecutive loops in a Sedbergh.
We were told definitely no rolls in the barge - too much chance of negative 'g' and the struts appearing on top of the wing - but a chandelle was permissible.
We were told definitely no rolls in the barge - too much chance of negative 'g' and the struts appearing on top of the wing - but a chandelle was permissible.
Last edited by chevvron; 6th Aug 2018 at 16:12.
Looping a T31?
Dave Unwin asked
Vne 70kts - with the drag of the Cadet Mk3 - I'm afraid not. There was some spirited flying by the instructors on hangar flights for cadets who after A&B were found not to have done the 20 launches 'required', and to keep the books straight, formative experiences, but then again we didn't have enough experience to know what was sensible.
Dave Unwin asked
Olddog Why not? I wouldn't loop ours today, but this was 60 years ago.
I agree with Fitter2 and others in that T31's should not have been looped,they are 'Normal Category' gliders.The T21 was classified as semi aerobatic and as previously mentioned - it was the fun glider.
I know this is from a slightly more recent BGA publication but it is exactly as I remember the cockpit placard.
BGA glider data sheet - T.31 (Tandem Tutor, Kirby Cadet Mk III)
I know this is from a slightly more recent BGA publication but it is exactly as I remember the cockpit placard.
BGA glider data sheet - T.31 (Tandem Tutor, Kirby Cadet Mk III)
I certainly agree that a 31 shouldn't be looped, and a -21 is much more useful. Could one have been? Possibly, it would've been untidy but I think do-able. TBH my mate's recollections are from 60 years ago, and its quite possible it was a sporting wing-over, chandelle or stall turn (yes I know these shouldn't have been done either, but it was a different time - see Pobjoy's story!)
Anyway, we digress. The point of my mate's story was how a week's gliding set a hook in him so deep, its still there. And I really think the RAF/ATC/VGS or someone has let a lot of kids down. IMHO of course
Anyway, we digress. The point of my mate's story was how a week's gliding set a hook in him so deep, its still there. And I really think the RAF/ATC/VGS or someone has let a lot of kids down. IMHO of course
For anyone interested, there is a discussion running in 'Private Flying' regarding the use of microlights for cadet AEF which I have mentioned in this forum.
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Centre Instructors
Dave The No I GC (Swanton) instructors were mainly ex war time in the early 60's and between them had been operational on most of the single engine fighters.
How they managed to suffer the weekly 'up round & down' in the fretwork fighters amazes me but they did so with great effect and really looked after any Staff Cadet that managed to get up there to help.
One thing for sure; they knew how to get the Cadets enthused in that week, and it was the norm that all the course members made the required A&B solo's. Cold weather jackets were the normal rig with the odd 'soapy hat' and wellies.
If you were up at Swanton helping and all the Cadets had finished you could be 'given' a machine and told to get as many launches in as you can before the end of the day, and if you had a P2 you were expected to fly the AE trips on Wed 'sports days'. Such was the 'leadership' and example from those at the 'coal face'.
How they managed to suffer the weekly 'up round & down' in the fretwork fighters amazes me but they did so with great effect and really looked after any Staff Cadet that managed to get up there to help.
One thing for sure; they knew how to get the Cadets enthused in that week, and it was the norm that all the course members made the required A&B solo's. Cold weather jackets were the normal rig with the odd 'soapy hat' and wellies.
If you were up at Swanton helping and all the Cadets had finished you could be 'given' a machine and told to get as many launches in as you can before the end of the day, and if you had a P2 you were expected to fly the AE trips on Wed 'sports days'. Such was the 'leadership' and example from those at the 'coal face'.
I did my gliding course at SM, over the period of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Arrived with shiny PPL from flying scholarship, told I would have A&B on first day, which I did, from then I was a helper not a flyer, except for sitting in on hangar flights. Great week. 50 years later when I finished gliding course in UK, BGA found my documents and issued a replacement for a fiver, not a new A&B cert for thirty odd quid or whatever it is now.
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Actually they struggled to provide me with any boots over the last 5 years! When they did they then informed me I couldn't fly in them as they lead to inadvertent application of the toe brakes.
Boots and 'light Aircraft'
In the Tiger Club (Redhill Days) all new members HAD to check out to solo standard in a Tiger Moth as the initial entrance to the 'sweet shop'.
Came the day when they decided that having a putter around in a Turbulent looked like being fun, and they would 'clump' over in the classic WW2 boots and Irvin Jacket.
I would get them to lift the Turb by the tail thereby demonstrating how light it was, and easy to nose over if not careful. This then rather made the case for removing the boots and flying in socks having of course also removed the Irvin Jacket so they could actually fit in.
Finger and thumb only on the stick and only 'feel' it to control then it was off to discover another 'realm' of aviation unknown to most.
Came the day when they decided that having a putter around in a Turbulent looked like being fun, and they would 'clump' over in the classic WW2 boots and Irvin Jacket.
I would get them to lift the Turb by the tail thereby demonstrating how light it was, and easy to nose over if not careful. This then rather made the case for removing the boots and flying in socks having of course also removed the Irvin Jacket so they could actually fit in.
Finger and thumb only on the stick and only 'feel' it to control then it was off to discover another 'realm' of aviation unknown to most.
A Group Captain John Middleton has been recognised by the Honourable Company of Air Pilots. The same one?
https://www.airpilots.org/file/2841/...ublication.pdf
https://www.airpilots.org/file/2841/...ublication.pdf
HAC Award to JM
Its a joke; who cares!, and I doubt promoted by the VGS volunteers who were given such poor leadership or support.
Hardly a testimony to a thorough understanding of a contribution to aviation.
Hardly a testimony to a thorough understanding of a contribution to aviation.