Air Cadets grounded?

[Wander00]

Chevron/Pobjoy - hear hear too

[GLIDER 90]

I flew in chipmunks & gliders when I was in the ATC.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by GLIDER 90

I flew in chipmunks & gliders when I was in the ATC.

There are probably several hundred thousand others who can say the same (me included) but we wouldn't have done so without the air Training Corps.

[Wander00]

And don't forget the CCF. I managed to blag my way on RN courses, so flew in the Dragonfly helicopter, the Dominie (two planks, 2 turning not 2 burning) and saw the SRN-1 in the Solent, sailed in Portsmouth Harbour in a whaler and due to an incompetent schoolmaster dressed as RN officer helm collided with HMS Vanguard. I also went on a number of Army courses, including 2 drill courses in the Tower of London, as a 16 year old commanded a squad in front of the Sunday tourists and twice watched the Ceremony of the Keys on a foggy November evening. Now there is "atmosphere" for you. Long, long time ago now.

[622]

Originally Posted by Wander00

And don't forget the CCF. .....

I for one will never forget the CCF...the long hair, white socks.....


(Just a bit of Banter )

[Arclite01]

I also taught the CCF on various VGS's.

Fair to say that almost without exception they were the scruffiest and relatively undisciplined bunch I've ever met. But I also found them to be some of the nicest people too......... many of them had a strangely independent life with boarding school and holidays with 'aunts' while their parents worked away with either companies or government departments. Several of mine had not seen their parents in over 18 months as I recall.

and 1 of my studes was the son of a Prince (of some weird far off place) - he was in the school CCF waiting to go to Cranwell as I remember, although the sad thing was he was seemingly 'going through the motions' with no love of aviation from what I could see...............

Long time ago now (1993).

“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”

― L.P. Hartley, The Go-Between

Arc

[pulse1]

As a gliding instructor I found that teaching CCF cadets, usually during Easter or Summer courses, was very different from the usual run of the mill weekend students. In my experience, CCF cadets were either very nice, good students, or bl**dy awful. You could almost guarantee that at least one CCF student per course was hopeless and would blame the instructors for their shortcomings.

On one course we had the son of the then Chief of the Air Staff and he was an extremely pleasant young man. During his course, as usual, we were suffering impossible weekday restrictions from nearby Boscombe Down and the other students were trying to get this lad to get his father to intervene on our behalf.

[boswell bear]

Back in the present for a minute gentlemen....ladies...what we are left with is what we are left with, the past is the past and much as I agree an enquiry is in order to seek why tax payers money has been wasted and a generation of cadets has missed out I believe we should move on and plan for the future of the organisation.
I for one am giving it my best shot to inspire the current generation of cadets. I regained my B1 a couple of weeks ago and flew two cadets on their blue wing flights which they both thoroughly enjoyed and both are now more determined to fly for a living.
Last weekend I instructed a staff cadet on their GS course and again that bond with aviation is sealed for life.
The coming 12 months is probably the swansong for Vigilant and I'm proud to be part of it and proud to serve on a squadron that has worked hard to recover from the "pause".

Fingers crossed "the management" have a plan for the future!

[POBJOY]

Sticking with it

Good luck to you BW and I am glad the ********* at Syerston have not driven you away.
This thread has been full of genuine passion because we have seen the destruction of a fine system 'that was not broken' where the real work was actually done.
One of the facets of the organisation was it gave an incredible opportunity to ALL COMERS to achieve something that was not available anywhere else.

I still remember the CCF Cadets arriving for their courses and being amazed that all the actual ground part of the operation was being run by other Cadets, which included driving them off to lunch (amid great banter).
We could get all the course and staff cadets in the Austin 1 tonner, usually with someone standing up in the 'turret' thinking he was in the LRDG.

Money can buy you most things in life but in the ATC all you needed was enthusiasm and skill in avoiding polishing those lino floors.

Keep that spirit up BW

[Flight_Idle]

I joined the ATC around about 1967 & was given a shockingly ill fitting 'Hairy blue' uniform, nothing like the smart uniforms of today.


However, we were ALL given the opportunity to go solo in a glider at no cost to ourselves. As school kids, we liked firing rifles, sometimes with the proper bolt action full bore 303 at times, but the 'Cherry on the cake' for the vast majority was going solo in a glider.


I just think that 'Computer simulated' rifle firing & very basic flying just cannot match the 'Real thing'.


The only answer is to get many thousands of cadets flying their own gliders again, with no one in the back seat, nothing else will do.

[boswell bear]

645 VGS still doing the job

Facebook Post

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by pulse1

As a gliding instructor I found that teaching CCF cadets, usually during Easter or Summer courses, was very different from the usual run of the mill weekend students. In my experience, CCF cadets were either very nice, good students, or bl**dy awful. You could almost guarantee that at least one CCF student per course was hopeless and would blame the instructors for their shortcomings.

Dougie King sometimes came down to 613 to help out with CCF summer courses. I remember him getting out of the back seat of a Mk3 saying 'f***ing lad's a bl**dy homicidal maniac.'

[spannermonkey]

Originally Posted by boswell bear

Back in the present for a minute gentlemen....ladies...what we are left with is what we are left with, the past is the past and much as I agree an enquiry is in order to seek why tax payers money has been wasted and a generation of cadets has missed out I believe we should move on and plan for the future of the organisation.
I for one am giving it my best shot to inspire the current generation of cadets. I regained my B1 a couple of weeks ago and flew two cadets on their blue wing flights which they both thoroughly enjoyed and both are now more determined to fly for a living.
Last weekend I instructed a staff cadet on their GS course and again that bond with aviation is sealed for life.
The coming 12 months is probably the swansong for Vigilant and I'm proud to be part of it and proud to serve on a squadron that has worked hard to recover from the "pause".

Fingers crossed "the management" have a plan for the future!

I'm of the same opinion, the issues that led to the current situation are unacceptable. Poor management of the fleet, a lack of accountability and disregard for airworthiness are things that in the fullness of time will either be addressed or simply swept away and forgotten. Unfortunately I suspect it will be the latter.

Regardless, I personally benefited immensely from the ATC as a cadet in my yoof and still remember the 'jump jump John' training video for the Chippy. Then I was fortunate to have been able to be parts of 624 VGS during my last tour in the RAF up to 2008. They were every bit as dedicated to what they were doing as any Sqn in the RAF, not a bad effort considering much was actually done by the cadets themselves. A great team, many of who I am still in contact with and one particular individual who always managed to arrange the most incredible Top Table guest speakers and events. These included Geoffrey Wellum and Eric "Winkle" Brown among others and I feel privileged to have met and spoken to both. He also somehow managed to wangle our very own personal display by the Rolls Royce Mk PR XIX Spitfire. An amazing display and some fantastic pictures were had that day. To top it all off, some great flying to boot for both the cadets and staff many of which have gone on to successful careers in the military or civil aviation.

Its the benefits the Cadets offer to those who are involved, that is what needs to be protected and to fail to do that is a sad reflection on those with the power and control.

[David Thompson]

I see that The Boss has a new aeroplane , a recently registered Sting S4 G-NIAC and gives his company address at Syerston and interestingly the ownership status is given as 'chartered' . Does this imply possible use by the cadets or within the fleet ?
All the info is on G-INFO and details of the Sting are here ; TL-2000 Sting S4 - TL-ULTRALIGHT Aircraft . Thoughts ?

[Bigpants]

A Goat?

https://goo.gl/images/5t5occ

Since air cadet flying is such a disappointment how about a back to basics approach? Buy or create kits of the Sandlin primary glider and get Wings to assemble them under LAA/BGA guidance.

Launch the kids for short hops from the nearest green field..... And cue health and safety types!

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Originally Posted by boswell bear

645 VGS still doing the job

https://www.facebook.com/645Voluntee...77573422346132

Yes, 645 is doing an excellent job. The worrying thing though is for how much longer. There has been too much mismanagement within the ATC regarding flying and gliding and I of the firm opinion that the powers that be are clueless as to how to resolve it. Some of these excellent facilities will bear the brunt of that incompetence and the Cadets will suffer further.

[beardy]

Originally Posted by Bigpants

https://goo.gl/images/5t5occ

Since air cadet flying is such a disappointment how about a back to basics approach? Buy or create kits of the Sandlin primary glider and get Wings to assemble them under LAA/BGA guidance.

Launch the kids for short hops from the nearest green field..... And cue health and safety types!

You may be so disappointed, the cadets I fly on the AEF are not. Moreover they are demonstrably safe.

[air pig]

Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

Yes, 645 is doing an excellent job. The worrying thing though is for how much longer. There has been too much mismanagement within the ATC regarding flying and gliding and I of the firm opinion that the powers that be are clueless as to how to resolve it. Some of these excellent facilities will bear the brunt of that incompetence and the Cadets will suffer further.

Recently and presently managed by blunties.

[Bigpants]

Demonstrably Safe?

Originally Posted by beardy

You may be so disappointed, the cadets I fly on the AEF are not. Moreover they are demonstrably safe.

Funny, but I also fly on an AEF and the idea that air cadet flying over the past ten years was demonstrably safe is just plain wrong. One of the themes of this whole thread is that the loss of life and aircraft disaster was predicted years and years ago when the MOD started to civilianise flying. The poor maintenance practices on the gliding side are simply another symptom of a poor system.

I soloed in a T31 at Swanton Morely in 1974, it was run professionally using old wooden gliders and well seasoned staff. When I later flew cadets in the RAF, OC Ops at Valley took a personal interest in the Chipmunk flying as did his counterpart at RAF Binbrook and much later Pete Stonham at Manston.

Cadet flying was safe and efficient back then because at every level the RAF staff involved and VR made sure teenagers were not put in harms way.

Cadets would get some STEM benefits from self build and self flying projects and I am aware of at least one ongoing in Northern Ireland. The Luftwaffe learned to fly in primary gliders like the Sandlin in the 1930s and the USAAF Academy still runs a gliding programme. Sullenberger was part of the USAAF gliding scene many years ago. Basic flying skills are far more important than the MOD think and this area has been neglected for too long.

[Cat Funt]

Originally Posted by air pig

Recently and presently managed by blunties.

FTRS=Failed To Resettle Successfully.