Air Cadets grounded?
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To be fair (and I have not and will not ever be described as a fan of OC 2FTS) if the above mentioned Regional Hubs end up lodged with the Regional Aerospace Centres on stations with other concurrent activities, I can see what used to be half a day's flying turning into something more like a weekend camp. When I was an ATC Sqn Cdr we tried to do this informally by booking the barrack range or any other facility we could on or off station. From the cadet's viewpoint (and they should be the reason ACO staff are doing this if we're being honest) that might be a good thing. If the undertaking of flying once a year and gliding twice a year is meant per cadet, then that is going to be interesting. My Sqn had an average strength of around 60 eligible cadets, that would have required five places per month, and with a large staff team and us making a positive attempt to secure every slot we could (picking up short notice vacancies - schmoozing the AEF Cdr!) we had no chance of achieving that. I hope for the cadets it works, but I am not optimistic.
Speaking as someone with plenty of years in them, as a purist I won't miss the Vigilant experience personally. It was never true gliding, and I made a point of telling everyone who hadn't done a proper winch launch to grab the opportunity, because the two do not compare. Flying in anything is great fun, but I think over the last however long the Vigilant has been around, a lot of cadets have missed out on what I consider proper gliding.
Speaking as someone with plenty of years in them, as a purist I won't miss the Vigilant experience personally. It was never true gliding, and I made a point of telling everyone who hadn't done a proper winch launch to grab the opportunity, because the two do not compare. Flying in anything is great fun, but I think over the last however long the Vigilant has been around, a lot of cadets have missed out on what I consider proper gliding.
What chance going solo
Well what we can be assured of is the 'Solo' option for Cadets is going to be a dwindling facility.
So we will have gone from an organisation that sent 'hundreds' of Cadets solo every year to a system of dual rides and little chance to do it alone; Wow what progress.
Loads more money spent,lots more meetings,loads of Yuk Speak reports,more misleading statements,less Cadet flying,and now CFS course's to boot !!!!
So we will have gone from an organisation that sent 'hundreds' of Cadets solo every year to a system of dual rides and little chance to do it alone; Wow what progress.
Loads more money spent,lots more meetings,loads of Yuk Speak reports,more misleading statements,less Cadet flying,and now CFS course's to boot !!!!
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Well even when I was at Watton with 611VGS or Sealand with 631VGS many Cadets had a 2 hour road journey to get to us and fly so in all honesty that's not new................ only at 625VGS @ Hullavington did most of the 'clients' have a reasonable journey length/time as we captured Swindon, Bristol, Gloucester, Oxford, Reading, Slough and several other medium sized towns in a 1 hour radius of travel, and we had accommodation on site as well (inc cookhouse food), good hangarage and onsite POL as well - all on a great airfield. Oh yes - and that is the one we are closing isn't it !! (awesome decision).
This plan also assumes that squadron staff can be found to cover 'yet another' weekend away including an overnight, that transport and drivers can be found for minibuses, that food can be provided (including vegetarian) and that the segregated accommodation can be operated and 'policed' for both sexes............... bearing in mind that many of the VGS operate on non-RAF, non-24hr sites in the middle of nowhere.
...............Not to mention when are the Cadets going to do their homework and College work, many of my students could spend 1 day at the VGS and 1 day doing college work - this plan scuppers that - and we should not estimate just how important College is nowadays to our bright stars..............
I think that the endgame will be a reduction in capability and a reduction in fun. But by then many of the people with experience of the past will have left anyway so there will be no baseline to compare it to. The figures will be wrapped up in 'spin' and everyone will say it's all 'hunky dorey' and it should have been done years ago...............
Losers = Cadets and Staff (not to mention UK Plc)
Winners = Accountants, Politicians and Career Monkeys (the usual)
Arc
This plan also assumes that squadron staff can be found to cover 'yet another' weekend away including an overnight, that transport and drivers can be found for minibuses, that food can be provided (including vegetarian) and that the segregated accommodation can be operated and 'policed' for both sexes............... bearing in mind that many of the VGS operate on non-RAF, non-24hr sites in the middle of nowhere.
...............Not to mention when are the Cadets going to do their homework and College work, many of my students could spend 1 day at the VGS and 1 day doing college work - this plan scuppers that - and we should not estimate just how important College is nowadays to our bright stars..............
I think that the endgame will be a reduction in capability and a reduction in fun. But by then many of the people with experience of the past will have left anyway so there will be no baseline to compare it to. The figures will be wrapped up in 'spin' and everyone will say it's all 'hunky dorey' and it should have been done years ago...............
Losers = Cadets and Staff (not to mention UK Plc)
Winners = Accountants, Politicians and Career Monkeys (the usual)
Arc
Last edited by Arclite01; 11th Mar 2016 at 10:45. Reason: Homework
With regard to where the existing VGS' will be based, I think there will be a lot of shuffling around of units, particularly in light of the regional emphasis. 626 at Predannack is not slated for disbanding, but there is no way that the Lizard peninsula could ever be described as 'regional' and there is certainly no overnight accommodation there. I suspect it will be on the move, maybe to replace the Vigilants at Chivenor.
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I was/am a Vigilant fan in the role it performed
I still believe there is a role for the Motorglider in ACO Gliding Ops (IMHO)
Arc
I still believe there is a role for the Motorglider in ACO Gliding Ops (IMHO)
Arc
Last edited by Arclite01; 11th Mar 2016 at 12:23. Reason: I still......
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Arclite
It is not a case of vigilant bashing but the facts, the aircraft is a motor glider that has been operated as a powerd aircraft because turning the engine off was prohibited by the VGS.
The result of this is that the fleet has a lot of engine hours on an engine that is no longer supported and so without a very costly engine retrofit the fleet will die.
Far better to sell the aircraft to people who can husband the engine life by using it as a true motor glider while it still has a value and pump the recovered money into other forms of air cadet flying.
This is not vigilant bashing, it's jus being pragmatic.
The result of this is that the fleet has a lot of engine hours on an engine that is no longer supported and so without a very costly engine retrofit the fleet will die.
Far better to sell the aircraft to people who can husband the engine life by using it as a true motor glider while it still has a value and pump the recovered money into other forms of air cadet flying.
This is not vigilant bashing, it's jus being pragmatic.
All I know is that here in the east we will lose 2/3 of our capacity for gliding. Wethersfield will require significant investment to accommodate cadets/staff overnight. That presupposes staff can spare yet another weekend away to take cadets. I wish the "pain and grief" calculations were made BEFORE these daft ideas were taken forward.
Can we stop the Vigilant bashing please. It did the job it was meant to which is more than can be said for others in this shameful debacle.
I fear that in the new regime there will be far fewer silly grins.
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A&C
The money never gets back to the generator of the revenue. It all goes to Treasury.
I do agree with your underlying comments though re: Vigilant, I think MoD should have been looking to buy a Vigilant replacement (and should do anyway) as the out of service date was originally 2025 anyway............. and actually should already be considering Viking replacement as well.
Arc
The money never gets back to the generator of the revenue. It all goes to Treasury.
I do agree with your underlying comments though re: Vigilant, I think MoD should have been looking to buy a Vigilant replacement (and should do anyway) as the out of service date was originally 2025 anyway............. and actually should already be considering Viking replacement as well.
Arc
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Sook
I've flown it engine off as well, pleasant handling, stable platform and surprisingly good visibility but unless you have a solid 4Kts all round it just does not climb in a thermal !!
I still think it did a good job circuit bashing.
Sad to see it go.
Arc
I've flown it engine off as well, pleasant handling, stable platform and surprisingly good visibility but unless you have a solid 4Kts all round it just does not climb in a thermal !!
I still think it did a good job circuit bashing.
Sad to see it go.
Arc
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It is not a case of vigilant bashing but the facts, the aircraft is a motor glider that has been operated as a powerd aircraft because turning the engine off was prohibited by the VGS.
The result of this is that the fleet has a lot of engine hours on an engine that is no longer supported and so without a very costly engine retrofit the fleet will die.
Far better to sell the aircraft to people who can husband the engine life by using it as a true motor glider while it still has a value and pump the recovered money into other forms of air cadet flying.
This is not vigilant bashing, it's jus being pragmatic.
The result of this is that the fleet has a lot of engine hours on an engine that is no longer supported and so without a very costly engine retrofit the fleet will die.
Far better to sell the aircraft to people who can husband the engine life by using it as a true motor glider while it still has a value and pump the recovered money into other forms of air cadet flying.
This is not vigilant bashing, it's jus being pragmatic.
Even if the engines were time expired, or getting close, then why not retrofit, or replace the aircraft entirely. It happens with other military aircraft, so why not the air cadet motor glider? Far better to have a larger glider footprint, and a mix of types that enable you to operate from a range of sites throughout the country, that a scattered handful that will not be able to meaningfully support the cadets. Gliding was the ATCs USP - what is the organisation without that?
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So what happens when volunteers can't stay overnight to supervise cadets?
Who is going to feed the cadets?
What happens when squadron staff don't want to carry out a five hour round trip to a VGS?
How much flying will a member of staff be able to do if he has got a 2.5 hr journey at the start and end of each day?
Ill thought out ideas from a management who have little regard for their greatest resource.
Who is going to feed the cadets?
What happens when squadron staff don't want to carry out a five hour round trip to a VGS?
How much flying will a member of staff be able to do if he has got a 2.5 hr journey at the start and end of each day?
Ill thought out ideas from a management who have little regard for their greatest resource.