Air Cadets grounded?
Snapyou
Hatton Cave? It's a bit like Haddon Cave (with or without hyphen!)
As I have said again and again, there is no agenda and I like many others want to help the VGS improve on the areas they fall short on - we all work for the same team!
Also, from others I have spoken to, what I have seen is no different to other VGS. It seems to be a common set of issues. That's why it's a systemic issue and why I keep bleating on about 2FTS looking at being the solution. I would like to offer that I'm not alone in this view.
Yes, there are mavericks at every airfield (not ones that fly F14s) and they are also made aware of the errors of their ways through audits, reports and the constant supervision from afar. I've seen this in a healthy, self-critical environment, however its when individuals are too defensive and unwilling to accept criticism and change that the alarm bells start to ring. Humbleness tends to allow aviators draw their pensions!
Anyway, here's wishing the VGS some safe flying soon and an improved existence under 2FTS.
LJ
Hatton Cave? It's a bit like Haddon Cave (with or without hyphen!)
As I have said again and again, there is no agenda and I like many others want to help the VGS improve on the areas they fall short on - we all work for the same team!
Also, from others I have spoken to, what I have seen is no different to other VGS. It seems to be a common set of issues. That's why it's a systemic issue and why I keep bleating on about 2FTS looking at being the solution. I would like to offer that I'm not alone in this view.
Yes, there are mavericks at every airfield (not ones that fly F14s) and they are also made aware of the errors of their ways through audits, reports and the constant supervision from afar. I've seen this in a healthy, self-critical environment, however its when individuals are too defensive and unwilling to accept criticism and change that the alarm bells start to ring. Humbleness tends to allow aviators draw their pensions!
Anyway, here's wishing the VGS some safe flying soon and an improved existence under 2FTS.
LJ
Well, I've just read this thread from start to finish and all I see is sensible advice. There are those from the VR(T) and CGI fraternity that would seem to have dug holes for themselves by not understanding the very basics of a met observation or the spelling of Haddon-Cave's surname that indicates the shallowness of their perceived knowledge, and then there are the others that say that change is needed (with which I also agree).
Anyone ever seen the Failing Aviator video? Some of the responses on here are a model of that.
iRaven
Anyone ever seen the Failing Aviator video? Some of the responses on here are a model of that.
iRaven
Last edited by iRaven; 6th May 2014 at 01:56.
Crikey, I've just re-read this:
So commercial aviation that bases some of its decisions on the fact that it has to make money! 
There is no operational imperative or financial pressure on flying cadets, so surely the safety system for VGS is as simple as possible? Stick to the rules and if there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
So, if I read this right, the orders in TGO(G)s are inadequate, so you take it upon yourself to make them up by "adapting" and "improvising"? 
!!!
It looks like Leon is 100% on the money!!!
iRaven
P.S. There appears to be another admission on safety equipment issues from another individual on this thread:
The VGS, like the rest of the RAF have significantly improved since Hatton Cave, but both are appreciably behind commercial aviation in terms of safety culture and understanding of human performance.
There is no operational imperative or financial pressure on flying cadets, so surely the safety system for VGS is as simple as possible? Stick to the rules and if there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
The issue of flying suits, headsets, equipment and maintenance are problems where all VGS's have just had to accept that RAF parenting is inadequate. Sqn’s have adapted and improvised to continue to operate.
!!!It looks like Leon is 100% on the money!!!
iRaven
P.S. There appears to be another admission on safety equipment issues from another individual on this thread:
I do think you have gone over the top with the flying suit issue. My own VGS was on an Army Garrison and at least an hours drive from our parent station and the squippers were not available at the weekends.
Last edited by iRaven; 6th May 2014 at 01:27.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 51
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
5 Posts
BEFORE YOU READ THIS REALISE THAT I SCR3W3D UP AND IT'S OLD INFORMATION!
I found this on the 8AEF Facebook page:
No reason to doubt the source.
CPL Clott
I found this on the 8AEF Facebook page:
They are grounded due to a problem with one of them at RAF Collage Cranwell. For safety reasons the fleet of tutors have been grounded until there is sufficient evidence that the problem will not effect any others.
Safety is the number one priority. This will then give them time to find the problem, if there is one, and resolve it without the chance of another incident.
Safety is the number one priority. This will then give them time to find the problem, if there is one, and resolve it without the chance of another incident.
CPL Clott
Last edited by Corporal Clott; 4th May 2014 at 11:17.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: across the border....
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was that extract from 8AEF's website for real? - RAF Collage Cranwell? and the problem will not effect any others?
I'd be more concerned about the standard of English (and attention to detail) than the thread used to sew on a badge.
7700
I'd be more concerned about the standard of English (and attention to detail) than the thread used to sew on a badge.
7700
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope not, 7700! But as for "prime Walts in RAF uniform...."(iRaven) that's the most unnecessary and petty comment I've read here for some time. I for one am eternally grateful to such "walts" who gave up their free time to give tens of thousands of teenagers a glimpse of RAF life.
As a cadet (CCF and for a short time ATC), officer with a regular commission (twice) and VR(T) commission, and as an ACLO I have seen few "Walts". I have seen a lot of men and women committed to the Air Cadet cause, who give many hours and days to help produce excellent young citizens. Walts get bored and go and collect engine numbers or something else.
As a cadet (CCF and for a short time ATC), officer with a regular commission (twice) and VR(T) commission, and as an ACLO I have seen few "Walts". I have seen a lot of men and women committed to the Air Cadet cause, who give many hours and days to help produce excellent young citizens. Walts get bored and go and collect engine numbers or something else.
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Cambridgeshire | MBE conman ordered to repay cash
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Cambridgeshire | Ex-police worker and ATC Officer applied for MBE
Wasn't that bored was he? Stuck around long enough to make an elaborate tale to get an MBE!
Just so the Army don't feel left out, here is an ACF Walt:
Walter mitty CSM in the cadets | Army Rumour Service
As for the minor Walts. Just try googling 'walter mitty cadet' in a search engine and you can read some of the stories of fake service records and para wings galore.
I'm not saying that every Air Cadet staff is a Walt, far from it. But they most definately have a full spectrum of Walters amongst their creed.
Rant over and out
iRaven
Last edited by iRaven; 6th May 2014 at 01:54.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LJ
Looking back I read with interest your observations about a VGS. If you had genuine concerns, then why did you not present them to the appropriate authority at the time?
I am certain that the professional members of the VGS you are referring to did not breach any rules unknowingly.
Looking back I read with interest your observations about a VGS. If you had genuine concerns, then why did you not present them to the appropriate authority at the time?
I am certain that the professional members of the VGS you are referring to did not breach any rules unknowingly.
Centrinoflyer
We did. We spoke with the seniors on the VGS, the DDH and the HQ at Syerston.
As I said before, the list I mentioned was over a number of years and some more serious than others. It was not intended to single out a single VGS unit, but to illustrate that things go wrong on VGS like any other flying unit - often different things that you wouldn't find on a front-line unit as the front-line unit enjoys more support from full-time regular staff.
I would expect these issues have been seen on other VGS. Also, if seen on a unit all at once, I would expect there to be a 'pause in flying'!!!
LJ
PS. Just read this post again and I want to point out:
1. It is not intended to embarrass any particular VGS.
2. These issues were dealt with individually - they did not happen at all at once.
3. VGS are as safe as many other MoD sponsored flying, they just need to catch up with the rest of us with respect to the recently introduced MAA safety assurance/ensurance practices (which they are doing).
4. I do not have a personal vendetta against the VGS or the Air Cadet Organisation (unlike some on here!).
We did. We spoke with the seniors on the VGS, the DDH and the HQ at Syerston.
As I said before, the list I mentioned was over a number of years and some more serious than others. It was not intended to single out a single VGS unit, but to illustrate that things go wrong on VGS like any other flying unit - often different things that you wouldn't find on a front-line unit as the front-line unit enjoys more support from full-time regular staff.
I would expect these issues have been seen on other VGS. Also, if seen on a unit all at once, I would expect there to be a 'pause in flying'!!!
LJ
PS. Just read this post again and I want to point out:
1. It is not intended to embarrass any particular VGS.
2. These issues were dealt with individually - they did not happen at all at once.
3. VGS are as safe as many other MoD sponsored flying, they just need to catch up with the rest of us with respect to the recently introduced MAA safety assurance/ensurance practices (which they are doing).
4. I do not have a personal vendetta against the VGS or the Air Cadet Organisation (unlike some on here!).
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm don't see how your links about former ATC volunteers in any way supports your case, Raven. I could reel off a string of cases of ex-servicemen who have committed much more unpleasant crimes