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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:05
  #721 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 74
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Very Large Carpet on order

From oc 2 fts
All meetings cancelled as no positive progress in immediate future.
Funding to be available for 'fleet recovery'.

Someone needs to tell the CAS what has 'actually' happened and why he needs to change the 'movers and shakers' to a team that have some idea how to operate aircraft rather than a 'spin doctor'.

They are now likely to spend even more money on finding a solution than just funding some new machines and getting going again.

I suggest some direct comms to CAS will provoke a reaction.

Nothing to lose as nothing happening anyway.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:21
  #722 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2005
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More delays while they read this thread!!

They are probably reading through this thread and the one on Air Cadet Central to get some ideas as to which way to turn!

Oh dear, and there was me thinking that they would have been discussing the options available during the 2 year "pause"!

Last edited by Frelon; 21st Oct 2015 at 12:36.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:31
  #723 (permalink)  
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A&C, about ten days ago you said in reply to Wander that "I think you will find that most of the where, who & when decisions have been made" - and it now appears that precisely NONE of the "where, who & when decisions have been made".
Does anyone actually know WTF is going on? Anyone at all?
This truly is a shameful, sorry saga.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:53
  #724 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2009
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On the 21st July, I said the following;

  • Can we start a sweepstake on how long the 'final paperwork issues' will take to sort out, and at what cost.

    I'll start with 1 year and 1M!
Can I collect my prize now?
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:02
  #725 (permalink)  
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Think letters to MPs are in order methinks or at least going for a chat at one of their "surgeries" to appraise them of the situation.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:04
  #726 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DaveUnwin View Post
This truly is a shameful, sorry saga.
It is indeed.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 16:49
  #727 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
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A previous post mentions Vigilant long term recovery. Does that mean that the Viking is deceased, dead, not living?

Last edited by Mandator; 21st Oct 2015 at 22:57.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 19:19
  #728 (permalink)  
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Bad News Day

I suspected it would be even worse than expected when looking at the latest issue of Air Cadet. It covers a whole host of activities and exciting 'events' but no mention of ATC Gliding at all.
I doubt if the CAS has had a full independent appraisal of the situation from anyone at the coal face or indeed anyone who knows how the system really works (or could work).
The guys at the Squadrons have been totally professional in not taking this situation outside of the Corps,and indeed have been subject to 'pressure' from above to keep the lid on.
Well we are past that now:a recovery can only occur if the patient is ALIVE, and the CAS has to be told in no uncertain terms that the patient is dying and needs life support NOW, not 'planning for recovery'. I am going to write direct to the CAS and copy the letter to Michael Fallon MP (Defence Minister and MP for Sevenoaks). There are lots of 'pruners' out there who can do this and help to get the Air element of the Corps in the air. If i lived in Sevenoaks i would go to one of the MP's surgeries and present the letter in person.
The volunteer Air component of the ATC/CCF has a proud history of delivering the goods and providing a fantastic chance for youth to develop themselves it must not be allowed to wither due to the inability of those who should be providing LEADERSHIP INSPIRATION and EXAMPLE.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 20:35
  #729 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
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You are right. I am only a CI at my local squadron (although ex-RAF pilot due to the ATC and gliding in my youth!!). I now reside in Oxfordshire (West) and, of course, have a very senior minister as my MP! I will be writing to him and attending his next "surgery" (an appropriate term!) in order to bring up this whole sorry subject. Result - who knows? Just maybe it might help as I see the Cadets losing interest! What a waste!!
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 21:10
  #730 (permalink)  
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Location: UK
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Saw this on Comdt Air Cadet's Facebook page dated 10 Oct 15:

I had a catch up call with the AOC and he is focussed on mtgs associated with the glider recovery programme, which is at a critical stage. As soon as we know what option has been agreed, we will ensure that information is cascaded to everyone who needs to know but, due to commercial and contractual sensitivities, I regret I cannot tell you what option are under consideration. Rest assured, the boss and his senior colleagues are doing all they can. I know many of you are fed up of waiting for the recovery but there are massive constraints at play and all I can ask is that you continue to be patient and, in the interim, make the most of all the other opportunities that the ACO has to offer.
Thank you Ma'am. Why can't your 2FTS flow out a similar message? We understand the commercial sensitivity surrounding the decision process but strong messages such as yours help us, in and out of your organisation, to understand what is going on.

Truly sad to hear on here that there is no information flow seemingly now planned in the upcoming weekends on the future of Air Cadet gliding.

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Old 21st Oct 2015, 21:17
  #731 (permalink)  
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My contacts sqn still bleeding cadets away - has gone down from 30+ cadets to 15 max - they might as well remove the 'Air' prefix and call them something else.The RAF/Leadership have let them down big time and there really is only a tenuous link between the modern ATC and the RAF.
As I said some time ago - the way ahead would have been (some) new gliders (other countries manage to plan these things) - the whole affair is very sad and smacks of hidden agendas - otherwise why all the secrecy ? Always best to come clean with problems !
The leadership from the top has been appalling ! (ie non existant !)
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 22:27
  #732 (permalink)  
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Meanwhile in Australia...

The AAFC, a youth development program supported by Air Force, was in the process of receiving 22 new gliders 11 ASK-21 Mi self-launching gliders and 11 DG 1001 Club soaring gliders.

Commander AAFC, Group Captain (AAFC) Greg Williamson said seven ASK-21 Mi self-launching gliders were currently spread across AAFC units in Stonefield South Australia, Bathurst NSW and Warwick Queensland.

Four more were due to be handed over to units in Point Cook in Victoria and Charters Towers Queensland by the middle of 2015.
They seemed to be able to aquire new gliders while in the uk we still fart about with old a/c - presumably spending a small (or large ?) fortune pi55ing in the wind against mounting paperwork
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 22:27
  #733 (permalink)  
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Dave Unwin

At the moment I am leaning towards agreeing with you, l did have high hopes that this relatively simple task could be achieved with good speed and reasonable cost if put into the hands of experienced glider professionals.

Until I get the full picture I will not comment further.

Last edited by A and C; 22nd Oct 2015 at 11:02.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 22:28
  #734 (permalink)  
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Real shame to hear the news. I was thinking of volunteering at Cosford now I work over that way but apparently guys say it's one of those getting closed down. Will the Viggies get sold off does anyone know? I do think the Vikkings are good for the kids to help out with holding wings and stuff on their day out though.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 00:17
  #735 (permalink)  
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So let's get this straight. After 19 months all we have is 4 Vigilants, no Vikings and the renaming of OC 2FTS to "Commandant".
Not true.

Everyone got a new badge to wear too.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 01:38
  #736 (permalink)  
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Anyone want a load of grief and to work for peanuts?


Looking on the bright side, by the time all the paperwork has been done, Weslake's new diesel engine will have years of experience under its belt, so it could be fitted to the Vigilant and VGSs can say goodbye to 100LL.

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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 08:29
  #737 (permalink)  
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I don't get it. Nothing has been decided, no contracts have been signed, there will be 'no positive progress in the future', and yet Serco are trying to recruit glider engineers.
Do they know something we don't????
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 09:33
  #738 (permalink)  
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Diesel engine

Check out all the operators who went to Diesel in the GA fleet and had a happy experience.
I still remember the adverts for the ARV2 with the ordinary two stroke.
Picture of ARV2 and a big tick with a c150 and a big cross.
Strange; still a lot of 150's around !!
The Weslake will be expensive/complicated and probably designed for the drone market.
Leaving aside the slmg v glider issue the fleets were adequate and did the job. They were let down by an organisation (RAF) that has stripped itself of trained staff to be replaced by contractors. The contractors seem to have kept the fleet going ok; its the RAF at fault not running a system to cope with the regulations.Someone needs to point them towards the LAA to help them find a level of operation for SIMPLE TYPES.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 09:56
  #739 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
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Unhappy Meetings cancelled

Very disconcerting news that the meetings have been postponed/cancelled. One can just picture the panic scenes behind closed doors - probably just like "Yes Minister" ! "What can we tell them ?" -" How are we going to get ourselves out of this mess that we've created ?" etc"

I doubt that we'll ever see the good days returning, - finances - risk averse strategy to extremes, poor management, sub-contracting and general ineptitude will cause depletion and demise ultimately.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 12:01
  #740 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Serco are trying to recruit glider engineers.
I venture to suggest that people with the requisite skills are quite rare around Syerston.
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