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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 16th Oct 2015, 07:29
  #661 (permalink)  
 
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Dave U - Good point: 'Of course, in fairness I should add that I've flown and worked with some brilliant military pilots'. That's part of the problem, beyond things like politics, budgets, etc.

Aircrew reach Gp Capt on their ability as operators - in the cockpit - then hit a completely new sphere of command, with politics, budgets, etc to contend with. Some make the transition superbly, an ex-OC Lossie stands out, but many do struggle. But lets not forget that once rewritten, the saga of the flying pause may see Cdt AC knighted and OC 2 FTS awarded the air force cross. Included in the citations will be 'decisive leadership', 'force-wide cost savings' and 'exemplary safety implementations'.
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 08:24
  #662 (permalink)  
 
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rewriting history

Never underestimate the ability of the 'system' to rewrite history.

Even while the Battle of Britain was being fought the 'brass' were plotting and scheming to remove the only two persons who kept their cool.
It took over 20 years to right the wrong,and longer to get the facts out there.

Despite the fact that the Cadet organisation has failed in its remit to provide a flying training service to keen youngsters the official websites and brochures continue to flourish with the usual media hype and now the 'celeb' endorsements.

The situation has highlighted deficiencies in both leadership and competency from above, yet the volunteers at the 'coal face' who have for decades kept a safe system going with dedication and service have been treated with scant respect. It is always the easy option to do nothing and sadly this is becoming the norm in all manner of things nowadays, but HISTORY WILL RECORD that the ATC volunteer element of the gliding organisation has an unrivaled SAFE record of providing the required VENTURE ADVENTURE since its inception and has only been let down by poor leadership from the top.
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 08:38
  #663 (permalink)  
 
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I would far rather we see some people fired for imposing rules that stop those in command from seeking the best technical advice, being able to make decisions based on technical fact and being able to fire those who hide their incompetence behind a stream of technical questions and requirements that the manuals outline in the smallest detail tasks that should fall under the heading of basic tradecraft.

I would be very pleased to see a knighthood awarded to the military officer who can sort out the mess that this has become but he will have to start by giving out a lot of P45's
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 08:54
  #664 (permalink)  
 
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"But lets not forget that once rewritten, the saga of the flying pause may see Cdt AC knighted and OC 2 FTS awarded the air force cross. Included in the citations will be 'decisive leadership', 'force-wide cost savings' and 'exemplary safety implementations'."

Actually ACW that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest - after all there's truly been a massive underspend of the Flying Budget, while the flight safety record is a very impressive 100%. Taken in isolation, those two facts would look good on anyone's CV..........
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 08:54
  #665 (permalink)  
 
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Good sensible answer FLUG.

Arc
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 09:29
  #666 (permalink)  
 
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I think my old K6E (433) might've been based at Bruggen FLUG.
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 10:10
  #667 (permalink)  
 
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ACW VGL


Oh come on!

"Aircrew reach Gp Capt on their ability as operators - in the cockpit -"

Funniest thing I've seen on PPRuNe for a LONG time!
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 10:35
  #668 (permalink)  
 
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Fair point, pr00ne!

Mine was simply that they don't get there by having a proven track record of successfully running an FTS, understanding SLA/KPI, managing contractors, implementing stuff and so on. The service spent a large sum on management consultancy on investigating why there was a problem at that rank and providing training to get over it. Its obviously worked.
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 10:58
  #669 (permalink)  
 
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The Peter Principle!!

The Peter principle is a concept in management theory formulated by Laurence J. Peter in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in their current role, rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence."

In an organizational structure, assessing an employee's potential for a promotion is often based on their performance in the current job. This eventually results in their being promoted to their highest level of competence and potentially then to a role in which they are not competent, referred to as their "level of incompetence". The employee has no chance of further promotion, thus reaching their career's ceiling in an organization.

So it may be that many large hierarchical type organisations are run by incompetents!

Hat, coat, run.....
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 11:32
  #670 (permalink)  
 
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Frelon

That is without mentioning the fact that once they have reached their level of incompetence they will block the promotion of anyone bright enough to show up their incompetence.
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 21:05
  #671 (permalink)  
 
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We don't know what they are going to say at the briefings, but assuming the worst doesn't happen, what alternative may be offered up? (other than a resumption of the existing system with all the aircraft deemed airworthy).

My own thoughts are running along the lines of either the Vigilant or Viking fleet being cut entirely. This binning of entire types seems to be the way the RAF have handled recent down-sizing and seems popular since it draws a line under the whole issue (with no chance of a come-back).

Assuming that either the Viking or Vigilant fleet gets removed from service, and there is no increase in the fleet that remains, it seems to me that something will have to give. The only thing I can come up with is that it would mean that full gliding courses and training to solo standard would be largely discontinued. The VGS's would become glorified 'air experience' flights only able to throughput large numbers of cadets if they only cover part of the existing syllabus. Possibly those who show aptitude and enthusiasm would then continue on to the full syllabus and solo on an 'advanced course' (currently available for post-solo consolidation).

The advanced course could be carried out at Syerston with an enlarged establishment or at specific nominated Squadrons.

Obviously the major drawback would be the gradual withering away of the A and B cats and their greater experience, plus the disincentive that not going solo would have on cadet retention.

I am not in favour of this, but am just surmising what alternatives may be being cooked up by those facing the long-term options. Any thoughts on what the fleet options are? I assume Vigilants would be for the chop not least because of their greater 'complexity' and all those new winches sitting already paid for.

Flug
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 21:41
  #672 (permalink)  
 
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Given the way this spinning bow-tie extravaganza came into being, the high-handed manner in which the brain trust has disregarded everyone throughout the process, and their repeated mantra of "trust us" whenever anyone further down the food chain has asked for information, I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess at what kind of arse-about-face solution is about to be be handed down.

Given that nobody I know has even heard of the CoC approaching the people at the coal face to ask for our input, I believe that a great many of us are hanging around more out of a morbid curiosity to see what happens next than anything else. Personally, I'm ready to walk away no matter what the decision is as I have zero confidence in the CoC's interest in, or ability to, serve cadets.
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 12:00
  #673 (permalink)  
 
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Cat Funt

It is not the military leadership that sparked this crisis, it was the failure of those maintaining the fleet to meet the basic standards of technical compliance and record keeping.

From the military perspective the technical oversight could have been better but with the simplicity of the task you can see why is got missed when you consider the front line aircraft that require management.

Now the whole training system is under review with the Grob Tutor fleet as well as the gliders up for grabs so the game has become much more complicated.

The treasury bean counters have there eyes on the gliding sites in order to make a quick buck with no view to the damage that will be done to the youth of the nation.

The rules on fairness for government contracts may well result in the very people who failed to maintain the gliders getting the Grob Tutor contract inspite of their track record.

Add to this a safety culture that is just as extreme as anything the Taliban or Isis run in the field of religion and you can see the mess that the whole thing is.

What should have been a relatively simple and inexpensive technical task( if given to an experienced glider repair company ) has become stuck in the mire of vested interests, political correctness and job protection of people who are stringing the whole thing out in the hope that they can cover up their repeated errors.
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 23:09
  #674 (permalink)  
 
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Here you go, now in the public domain. This is the reason why they initially stopped or 'paused' - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...6%20O.pdf.html

Unapproved modifications, non-documented repairs, no independent inspections being carried out, poor document keeping and 765 snagging/rectification and no effective quality management. As I further understand it, they found unrecorded accident damage and then undocumented repairs when the sub-contracted maintenace facilities started looking at the aircraft.

I can't imagine that the engineers are solely to blame for this as those non-documented accident damages can't have taken place without some aircrew instructor input!

The most damming line in this FOI document for me is the line "the management of the glider fleets had degraded to a point where airworthiness could not be confirmed". This is an utter disgrace in my view.

If you want to fly children then this just will not do...

LJ
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 01:39
  #675 (permalink)  
 
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ultimate responsibility!

Do we know if the Syerston fleet as opposed to the w-e VGS aircraft were in the same 'state' or do they have a different servicing operation.
Either way not a good day for the MOD/RAF to have got themselves into this situation with such simple aircraft. Boom Trenchard would not be amused.
On a brighter note there does not seem to have been much in the way of 'incidents' emanating from this situation so something must have been working ok even if the recording needs tweaking.
I suspect the real culprit will have been 'bean counting' trying to get more for less and having no idea of how it affects the actual way the job has to be done to meet the 'targets'.
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 03:08
  #676 (permalink)  
UV
 
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what alternatives may be being cooked up by those facing the long-term options.
Savings from binning gliding to be used to increase the number of Air Cadet Pilot Scheme allocations at Dundee, or elsewhere??

Hat.....
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 05:44
  #677 (permalink)  
 
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Do we know if the Syerston fleet as opposed to the w-e VGS aircraft were in the same 'state' or do they have a different servicing operation
IIRC all Vigilants were rotated around the VGS's over time. Not sure if the same was true for the Viking fleet.
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 08:15
  #678 (permalink)  
 
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So, who is going to end-up in court? It seems that the CAME has not been enforced and the CAMO did not identify a number of issues for some time. As for the MO introducing mods on primary systems (elevator hinge) without due process, I'm lost for words.
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 08:40
  #679 (permalink)  
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One my mates said last night that all the glidders and Viggies have been left at the schools when they closed and haven't even been looked at or taken apart? Can't be right as I thought they were all at syston finishing off getting fixed surely?
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 09:23
  #680 (permalink)  
 
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That is correct, I've seen Viggies languishing in hangars at Kinloss, Halton, Odiham and Cosford during my travels over the past few months.
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