Air Cadets grounded?
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Exactly the point I was trying to tease out, RB. Unless there is something specific to RAF Wittering or the AEF, its not a requirement. Civi aircraft, such as the Tutors, and military aircraft routinely and safely operate from military and civil airfields without ATC. Any airfield with the callsign 'Radio' or 'Information' is operating without ATC. What is actually preventing flying?
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ACW VGL, Tutors don't operate without ATC as far as I'm aware, I've been flying at Boscombe Down 6 times and I've had to wait for the ATC staff to come off lunchbreak several times
Tom
Tom
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One of the busiest gliding sites in Europe (Lasham) manages perfectly well without ATC even when running a comp, which can involve launching 60 gliders by aerotow within an hour, which means at least 60 launches and 60 tugs landing, plus any glider that comes back for a relight and it's additional launch & tug landing. They might have the winch or winches running as well (they have two Skylaunches)...
At Shawbury for camp one year, we had to wait for over an hour until the SDO (who was a controller) got to the tower before the first aircraft even taxiied.
Although having said that, if there is a detachment to a civil airfield which normally operates AFIS or A/G, I dare say the authorising officer would allow this, but I can't think of any airfields where this might happen, perhaps ACW VGL would care to enlighten us all?
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One of the busiest gliding sites in Europe (Lasham) manages perfectly well without ATC
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The civvy airfield that I'm a member of is air to ground. It has full runway lighting, PAPIs, VOR approach, snow clearance, is a biz jet hub for the north, operates two fixed wing and one rotary flying school and has hangars full of privately owned aircraft. I can count on one hand the number of times I've rejoined and there has been no circuit activity. If they can operate like that, why can't Syerston?
Any particular reason the Tutors at Wittering don't decamp to an airfield that has ATC coverage at weekends, say Duxford or Cambridge?
It's only a patch but it will get the kids backsides in the air at least. Again, if they wanted to find a solution they would. Looks like the reason why I left the ATC is still there, forests of red tape!
OB
It's only a patch but it will get the kids backsides in the air at least. Again, if they wanted to find a solution they would. Looks like the reason why I left the ATC is still there, forests of red tape!
OB
Hopefully my eldest will get airborne at Boscombe this morning - this will be his second flight in 18 months of being in the ATC 
His school, Churcher's College, has a very active CCF section but retention in the ATC wing is a real problem at the moment due to the lack of flying.
As an aside, are station visits organised by the ATC Squadrons directly or are invitations sent out by the stations and it's first come first served on who gets to go? With Odiham and Brize not too far away I would have hoped the school could have organised something. I have a faint memory though that someone stated these visits are all dependent on the ATC Squadron taking the initiative? If it's the latter perhaps it's time to have a chat with the school?
His school, Churcher's College, has a very active CCF section but retention in the ATC wing is a real problem at the moment due to the lack of flying.As an aside, are station visits organised by the ATC Squadrons directly or are invitations sent out by the stations and it's first come first served on who gets to go? With Odiham and Brize not too far away I would have hoped the school could have organised something. I have a faint memory though that someone stated these visits are all dependent on the ATC Squadron taking the initiative? If it's the latter perhaps it's time to have a chat with the school?
Ref the above, it's very (or it was in my day) much down to the individual ATC / CCF Squadron to contact the Station and ask...do they still have ACLO's ?
I can only speak from an ATC perspective, but I believe the CCF was similar.
I can only speak from an ATC perspective, but I believe the CCF was similar.
Any particular reason the Tutors at Wittering don't decamp to an airfield that has ATC coverage at weekends, say Duxford or Cambridge?
It's only a patch but it will get the kids backsides in the air at least. Again, if they wanted to find a solution they would. Looks like the reason why I left the ATC is still there, forests of red tape!
It's only a patch but it will get the kids backsides in the air at least. Again, if they wanted to find a solution they would. Looks like the reason why I left the ATC is still there, forests of red tape!
And let's not get into the thorny issues of engineering support, landing fees, etc etc.
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Wasn't it one of the recommendations that came out of the enquiries about the Tutor fatalities that they operate under a radar service?
622 - thanks for the feedback - I'll get on their case 
"an airfield that has ATC coverage at weekends, say Duxford or Cambridge?"
Cambridge has ATC (i.e. Air Traffic Control with Tower, Approach and Radar call-signs). Duxford, like most small airfields does not. Duxford is an Information call-sign so the AFISO controls ground movements. As soon as the aeroplane is on the runway, it's uncontrolled and up to the pilot. Mind you, even the people that run airfields don't always know the difference, calling Church Fenton by telephone this week to see whether they operate after dark, one of the telephone options is for Air Traffic Control when the airfield has at best an air-ground radio station i.e. not control at all.
Cambridge has ATC (i.e. Air Traffic Control with Tower, Approach and Radar call-signs). Duxford, like most small airfields does not. Duxford is an Information call-sign so the AFISO controls ground movements. As soon as the aeroplane is on the runway, it's uncontrolled and up to the pilot. Mind you, even the people that run airfields don't always know the difference, calling Church Fenton by telephone this week to see whether they operate after dark, one of the telephone options is for Air Traffic Control when the airfield has at best an air-ground radio station i.e. not control at all.
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Incubus, sorry I don't know how to apply a quote. The Tutor mid-airs were upper air and the recommendation would mitigate the risk of 'See and avoid'. I have been Duty Instructor at an A/G RAF Airfield VGS when the occasional Tutor came in. The made all the right calls, helping everyone's situational awareness and, after a couple of touch and goes, flew safely away - all without ATC. I think you touch on the issue behind cadet non-flying, mentioned early in this thread, the worry of the next cadet to be lost enacting Haddon-Cave's threat of safety responsibility being removed from the military.
"As usual the devil is in the detail. When do the aircraft deploy from Wittering to elsewhere? Can't do it on Saturday morning - no ATC at Wittering. Friday afternoon impacts on Friday's flying. Friday evening requires the staff to get MT back after the delivery flight and then set off at crack of dawn on Monday for the pick-up - not ideal for people on a rest tour, especially those who commute at weekends already.
And let's not get into the thorny issues of engineering support, landing fees, etc etc."
Totally understand this but let's face it, it's not too hard to overcome this little speed bump if people had the want to.
As for support and fees, I'm pretty sure that the Marshall family would be willing to assist
OB
And let's not get into the thorny issues of engineering support, landing fees, etc etc."
Totally understand this but let's face it, it's not too hard to overcome this little speed bump if people had the want to.
As for support and fees, I'm pretty sure that the Marshall family would be willing to assist
OB
