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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 5th Aug 2018, 17:32
  #4561 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 203
I trust they didn't loop a T31!
Probably not, initial training and solo in the Kirby Cadet TMkIII (T31 to our civi followers), then the fun stuff in the Slingsby Sedbergh T21b.

Those were the days!!
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 19:39
  #4562 (permalink)  
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Looping the T31

I have to say I never saw one looped, but I did 'experience' a slightly unusual trip with Douggie King at the end of my A&B at Swanton in the 60's .
On the Friday afternoon it transpired I had not actually flown the required no of launches for the A&B even though I had completed the 3 solo's.
The remedy was to put me back in the front seat of a MK3 and be flown by Douggie to satisfy the paperwork.
We shot up the launch and then proceeded to imitate a tank busting (Typhoon attack) on the main hangar starting with a near half roll and pull through, and then after a suitable dive yet another pull up wingover and final run before running out of steam.
This was repeated on the other launch and of course being such a memorable ride to a 16yr old was the excuse for much 'practice' of this in the future. My 3822 logged it as 'beat ups' so I was ever grateful to Douggie for this 'Check Out' !!!!, and still keep in current practice.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 19:51
  #4563 (permalink)  
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Are the G103 Twin Astirs suposed to be grounded? FLARM shows one has been fling from Ternhill today, but I didn't think they had a winch at Ternhill?
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 19:58
  #4564 (permalink)  
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I enjoyed my 1500 or so launches in T31 and T21s at Hendon and Bovingdon as a Cdt, Staff Cdt and CI prior to an RAF career spanning 39 years as a pilot. A bit of research ( https://members.gliding.co.uk/wp-con...312150_t31.pdf ) shows that, officially at least the T31 is non aerobatic and prohibited from cloud flying. I did witness some sporting wing overs and steep turns but never saw a T31 looped. The Barge However
was a different story!

was a different story!
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 12:04
  #4565 (permalink)  
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I once watched a certain staff cadet who became a BGA National Coach (CR) do 14 consecutive loops in a Sedbergh.
We were told definitely no rolls in the barge - too much chance of negative 'g' and the struts appearing on top of the wing - but a chandelle was permissible.

Last edited by chevvron; 6th Aug 2018 at 16:12.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 14:59
  #4566 (permalink)  
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Looping a T31?

Dave Unwin asked
Olddog Why not? I wouldn't loop ours today, but this was 60 years ago.
Vne 70kts - with the drag of the Cadet Mk3 - I'm afraid not. There was some spirited flying by the instructors on hangar flights for cadets who after A&B were found not to have done the 20 launches 'required', and to keep the books straight, formative experiences, but then again we didn't have enough experience to know what was sensible.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 20:06
  #4567 (permalink)  
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I agree with Fitter2 and others in that T31's should not have been looped,they are 'Normal Category' gliders.The T21 was classified as semi aerobatic and as previously mentioned - it was the fun glider.

I know this is from a slightly more recent BGA publication but it is exactly as I remember the cockpit placard.

BGA glider data sheet - T.31 (Tandem Tutor, Kirby Cadet Mk III)

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Old 6th Aug 2018, 21:39
  #4568 (permalink)  
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I certainly agree that a 31 shouldn't be looped, and a -21 is much more useful. Could one have been? Possibly, it would've been untidy but I think do-able. TBH my mate's recollections are from 60 years ago, and its quite possible it was a sporting wing-over, chandelle or stall turn (yes I know these shouldn't have been done either, but it was a different time - see Pobjoy's story!)

Anyway, we digress. The point of my mate's story was how a week's gliding set a hook in him so deep, its still there. And I really think the RAF/ATC/VGS or someone has let a lot of kids down. IMHO of course
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Old 7th Aug 2018, 12:12
  #4569 (permalink)  
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For anyone interested, there is a discussion running in 'Private Flying' regarding the use of microlights for cadet AEF which I have mentioned in this forum.
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Old 7th Aug 2018, 16:17
  #4570 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
For anyone interested, there is a discussion running in 'Private Flying' regarding the use of microlights for cadet AEF which I have mentioned in this forum.
I'm sure 2 FTS will be able to put a stop to any such wild and dangerous outbreak of aviation...!
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Old 7th Aug 2018, 22:35
  #4571 (permalink)  
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Centre Instructors

Dave The No I GC (Swanton) instructors were mainly ex war time in the early 60's and between them had been operational on most of the single engine fighters.
How they managed to suffer the weekly 'up round & down' in the fretwork fighters amazes me but they did so with great effect and really looked after any Staff Cadet that managed to get up there to help.
One thing for sure; they knew how to get the Cadets enthused in that week, and it was the norm that all the course members made the required A&B solo's. Cold weather jackets were the normal rig with the odd 'soapy hat' and wellies.
If you were up at Swanton helping and all the Cadets had finished you could be 'given' a machine and told to get as many launches in as you can before the end of the day, and if you had a P2 you were expected to fly the AE trips on Wed 'sports days'. Such was the 'leadership' and example from those at the 'coal face'.
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Old 8th Aug 2018, 13:17
  #4572 (permalink)  
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I did my gliding course at SM, over the period of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Arrived with shiny PPL from flying scholarship, told I would have A&B on first day, which I did, from then I was a helper not a flyer, except for sitting in on hangar flights. Great week. 50 years later when I finished gliding course in UK, BGA found my documents and issued a replacement for a fiver, not a new A&B cert for thirty odd quid or whatever it is now.
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Old 9th Aug 2018, 07:41
  #4573 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DaveUnwin View Post

I think that part of the problem is that the VGS tends to ‘gold plate’ its operation. A VGS instructor wears the same boots and flying suit as a Typhoon pilot - all paid for by the tax payer.
Actually they struggled to provide me with any boots over the last 5 years! When they did they then informed me I couldn't fly in them as they lead to inadvertent application of the toe brakes.
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Old 9th Aug 2018, 16:38
  #4574 (permalink)  
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Boots and 'light Aircraft'

In the Tiger Club (Redhill Days) all new members HAD to check out to solo standard in a Tiger Moth as the initial entrance to the 'sweet shop'.
Came the day when they decided that having a putter around in a Turbulent looked like being fun, and they would 'clump' over in the classic WW2 boots and Irvin Jacket.
I would get them to lift the Turb by the tail thereby demonstrating how light it was, and easy to nose over if not careful. This then rather made the case for removing the boots and flying in socks having of course also removed the Irvin Jacket so they could actually fit in.
Finger and thumb only on the stick and only 'feel' it to control then it was off to discover another 'realm' of aviation unknown to most.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 06:28
  #4575 (permalink)  
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A Group Captain John Middleton has been recognised by the Honourable Company of Air Pilots. The same one?

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Old 13th Sep 2018, 07:52
  #4576 (permalink)  
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The Honourable Company gave a Master's Award to the arch-charlatan Tracy Curtis-Taylor if I recall correctly.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 17:10
  #4577 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
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The Master's Commendation for Flight Operations. Operations? Movements can barely be in the hundreds yet
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 14:17
  #4578 (permalink)  
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A Master's Commendation? That's truly amazing. Perhaps this 'company' isn't as honourable as they claim to be?
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 20:56
  #4579 (permalink)  
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Is there much of a difference in court, between libel and slander?
Just because you are angry doesn't mean you are right
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 21:06
  #4580 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2008
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I'm intrigued now. So Beardy, are you saying that this 'Master's Commendation' is warranted? Well-deserved even?
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