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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 18th Dec 2017, 17:57
  #3781 (permalink)  
Olympia 463
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Well I seem to have winkled out some of the reasons for this disaster. And I am happy to be corrected by those who were nearer the problems than I ever was. I was merely recounting my experience with the PE.

The day after the ITDU trial of 'Kite' (our code for the SA80 sight) we were descended upon by some chaps from the MoD who wanted us to hand over the two prototypes. These were 'knife and fork' hand built jobs, and as the project was PV, we naturally demurred. We did give them the specification data, and a few weeks later an urgent OR came authorising us to proceed with the development of an infantry weapon sight for the SA80! OK this was 'their Gunships', not 'their Airships', but the effect would have been the same.

I had plenty of dealings with the RAF on LRMTS on the Tornado and I found the technical ability of many of their officers a bit lacking. No fault of the officers concerned, the troubles were much higher up. As someone says above, a pilot is not automatically an engineer, though this engineer is a pilot (glider).
 
Old 19th Dec 2017, 07:43
  #3782 (permalink)  
 
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Olympia 463

Interesting you mention SA80. Many years later, one of the reasons for its poor reputation emerged - the IPT had lost design control through failure to implement the same regulations. (There is little difference in the basic regs across Air, Land and Sea domains - the process changes a little at the end when it comes to certification. They, too, regarded this as a 'waste of money'). Also interesting you mention ITDU. The Land equivalent, if you like, of A&AEE Boscombe Down, who were serially ignored when they gave formal notification of the systemic airworthiness failings that we're talking of here. The reaction from on high was the same - we're not putting up with that, your posts are being cut. I recall, at ITDU in 2002, four crucial Army posts were resurrected and actually funded by the project office at Abbey Wood, not the Army.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 00:34
  #3783 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
I don't see how by increasing the distance a cadet has to travel to the nearest gliding school, (by reducing the number of gliding schools) they hope to make it more efficient.
Do they not realise that an immense amount of training is sorry was carried out at weekends rather than on one week courses?
By the way Pobjoy, as one ex gliding school staff member to another, I thought the word was 'cretins' (spelt i-m-b-e-c-i-l-e-s) not 'cretons'.
Any improvement in flight safety is likely to be negated by the increased risk of Air Cadets being involved in a road traffic accident due to their civilian instructors falling asleep at the wheel of the squadron minibus, when carting the cadets home on multi-hour journeys after their three six minute flights.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 08:47
  #3784 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mechta View Post
Any improvement in flight safety is likely to be negated by the increased risk of Air Cadets being involved in a road traffic accident due to their civilian instructors falling asleep at the wheel of the squadron minibus, when carting the cadets home on multi-hour journeys after their three six minute flights.
My thoughts when I heard that cadets from South Wales would be gliding at Little Rissington
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 09:01
  #3785 (permalink)  
 
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The downsides of new long distance VGS travel

Originally Posted by VX275 View Post
My thoughts when I heard that cadets from South Wales would be gliding at Little Rissington
Not to mention the fact that if the Wx if poor ( likely at Little Rissington) , they travel huge distance to get zilch, or if Wx better, they get a much reduced day and flying. And of course, if it's not an RAF sourced minibus, then the travel costs are considerable, and Squadron staff are much tired by travelling such long distances from home. But according to the Commandant, it's all very positive !! Spin Doctoress
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 12:12
  #3786 (permalink)  
 
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Join The Scouts

When I get asked re flying with the ATC, I say join the Scouts and go along to your nearest airfield and offer to help !!! Its amazing how welcome you will be made.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 17:36
  #3787 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
When I get asked re flying with the ATC, I say join the Scouts and go along to your nearest airfield and offer to help !!! Its amazing how welcome you will be made.
Why join the Scouts? Just go along!
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 18:53
  #3788 (permalink)  
 
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Scouts

The Scouts are a fine organisation without the C..p leadership and buckets loads of B....S....
The ATC 'were' a great organisation, but have lost their way big time and have got bogged down with hype, spin, and the yellow coat brigade. The leadership has become so PC they cant see the wood for the trees. In fact the promotion material put out is quite misleading.
Shame; as at Squadron level they try so hard to make it work, but the effort now seems to be running coach services everywhere for so little actual hands on activity, and they completely screwed up the best youth 'Air Training' scheme anywhere in the world, which will never come back with such useless leadership at the head of "2 FTS'.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 20:16
  #3789 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
The Scouts are a fine organisation without the C..p leadership and buckets loads of B....S....
The ATC 'were' a great organisation, but have lost their way big time and have got bogged down with hype, spin, and the yellow coat brigade. The leadership has become so PC they cant see the wood for the trees. In fact the promotion material put out is quite misleading.
Shame; as at Squadron level they try so hard to make it work, but the effort now seems to be running coach services everywhere for so little actual hands on activity, and they completely screwed up the best youth 'Air Training' scheme anywhere in the world, which will never come back with such useless leadership at the head of "2 FTS'.
But why join them to go to the local gliding club? Why not just join the club, if one wants to learn to fly?
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 20:50
  #3790 (permalink)  
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Flying even in gliders was never, and is never going to be cheap. The ATC existed only because the RAF was able to make a case to the Government of the day to fund an organisation intended to make some youngsters interested in flying. The benefit the RAF hoped to get (and indeed did get) was a source of potential recruits, Not just potential aircrew, but people who were air minded and wished to take part in activity which might include flying. However this must have cost a lot of money to set up and while the majority of the actual work was done by volunteers there was a cost in providing a structure of RAF personnel to organise it. Clearly this case is harder to make now that the technology has moved on and only fairly skilled and well educated staff are now required. This fact may have escaped some of you. The 'boy scout type' activities are no longer likely to attract the modern youngster who has so many other potential ways of spending their spare time.

I know lots of ATC instructors (I was taught to fly by them!) and I know what dedication and skill they brought to their involvement in the ATC. Times have moved on however and the objectives set for the ATC these days seem a bit foggy to me.

I was a founder member of the Staffordshire Gliding club in 1963 which took over the (now disappeared under housing) airfield at Meir near Stoke on Trent. Initially we tried to interest our company (English Electric) in funding a gliding club as part of the sports activity, When they heard how much money we needed they turned us down flat. We then got together a group of employees who wanted to learn to fly (note 'learn to fly" with no other aims like the ATC) and raised enough money to buy a T31, a tatty ex army Landrover, and a second hand winch from The Derby and Lancs club. The ATC instructors, who had been running the ATC squadron at Meir now disbanded, were delighted to join our new club and we started flying in early 1964.

We were fortunate that one of the ex ATC instructors was able to get clearance from the BGA to become CFI (on condition that he completed his silver C )and he also generously funded the purchase of more aircraft - a Tutor, an Olympia 2B and later on a Capstan and a Swallow. Without his financial backing we would have got off to a very slow start. I was appointed Technical Officer (I am a Chartered Mechanical Engineer trained by Rolls-Royce) and we had other specialisms available to us right at the start, so we were a well organised bunch. I was the first member of the nascent club to get off solo and I was swiftly followed by several others. None of this could have happened without a considerable input of money. MONEY is probably at the bottom of what is happening here. The RAF probably want the ATc to go away now that it no longer needs you.

Last edited by Olympia 463; 21st Dec 2017 at 12:15.
 
Old 20th Dec 2017, 21:15
  #3791 (permalink)  
 
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if you look at the other disasters that have marred the cadet experience in the last decade - 85% reduction in annual camp places, the effective loss of shooting on many Sqn's due to changes in the regulations, massive hurdles placed in the Adventure Training arena, powered flying taking the same dive as gliding in many regions, the RAF divorcing the VR(T) branch - and doing so with a great deal of dishonesty and incompetance - you might well think that the RAF was conducting a policy of deliberate decline of the ATC....
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 08:43
  #3792 (permalink)  
 
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Is Pippa-the-navigator still El Commandante of 2FTS?

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Old 21st Dec 2017, 09:10
  #3793 (permalink)  
 
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Cokecan,

Surely the reduction in annual camp places is concomitant with the overall reduction in the size of the defence estate, which is Government policy outside the control of the RAF.

Likewise, the demise of the VR(T) commission appears, on paper, to be the result of a tri-Service study, led by the Army.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 09:26
  #3794 (permalink)  
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RB, I think the Army are confused by the number of 'RAF' organizations - RAF, RAFR, RAFVR, RAFVR(T), RAuxAF, all with the same rank and relative seniority set out in QRs.

We confused them with their Maj (R) who was an RO with out a commission and us as RAFR ROs with a commission.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 10:29
  #3795 (permalink)  
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Cokecan

You make my case. The writing has been on the wall for some time by the sound of it. This whole affair looks like part of a cunning plan to get rid of the ATC. Get used to it. Organisations and industries come and go - nothing new in that. The RAF of 2017 is a vastly different thing to the RAF when the ATC was formed. It's not that long ago that one of our great and good politicians believed that the day of manned aircraft was coming to an end. Seeing what drones can do these days is maybe an indication that this trend has now started.

Last edited by Olympia 463; 21st Dec 2017 at 10:40.
 
Old 21st Dec 2017, 14:32
  #3796 (permalink)  

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Is Pippa-the-navigator still El Commandante of 2FTS?
And still wears "The Flying Badge" aka Wings.........
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 14:53
  #3797 (permalink)  
 
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No sympathy from me either. Emailed the ATC sqn near my parents once saying I’d be in the area for a couple of weeks once and that I was one of their ex-cadets - now RAF SNCO air crew, know a bit about electronics/comms, flying, leadership, basic training, march, shoot, how to fold your pants and clean your boots etc. “Would I mind mailing the training officer to understand where he could fit me in their already busy winter training schedule?” Now I don’t expect the red carpet, and I can’t expect a salute even from a 13 year old, but I was surprised by their village hut approach to life. Consequently, this glider business doesn’t surprise me. I’m sure some have their hearts in the right place.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 15:48
  #3798 (permalink)  
 
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Why Join The Scouts !!!

Hi Cats 5
Why not !!!, they offer multiple youth activities without the rubbish coming out of HQ ATC; plus they have sound leadership.
It always helps when going along to a flying or gliding club to be a member of an organisation that has a good reputation.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 16:08
  #3799 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by teeteringhead View Post
And still wears "The Flying Badge" aka Wings.........

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Old 21st Dec 2017, 16:29
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Originally Posted by teeteringhead View Post
And still wears "The Flying Badge" aka Wings.........
It seems to be widely rumoured that his contract is not being renewed.
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