Air Cadets grounded?
As a former CCF and ATC cadet and, for a short time, a VR(T) officer, I am much saddened by the inability to fly cadets over the last year or so. For all said and done, that what most cadets join for. Otherwise join the ACF, another great organisation. I am, however, still not clear whether the problem has been one of the way the gliders and other aircraft have been maintained, or whether the system of maintenance was not "approved", or the paper trail for each aircraft was not maintained properly. Is a succinct summary possible for the terminally stupid.
As I understand it, only 1x Vigi is flying and a 2nd is due to start soonish. I really can't see a full return to flight of the whole fleet 'soon'. Maybe a handful of the instructors getting current over the summer is more likely.
I further understand that the Vikings are going to be put out to various civilian glider mainenance organisations. Again, as far as I can understand it, it won't be 'soon'.
As for Wander00's question - a quick summary just wouldn't be possible as I understand it; lot's of issues accross the board! From what I do know (which I'm not willing to share), then OC 2 FTS and his Chf Eng made exactly the right call to take the 'pause' - although, 1 year later I think I would actually call it a 'grounding'!! If something had happened in the last couple of years then I suspect Mr Charles Haddon-Cave QC would have carried out his threat of the military being on its final warning and taken military aircraft airworthiness out of our hands. We would be reporting to a seperate regulator for the airworthiness of military aircraft and all that would entail...
LJ
I further understand that the Vikings are going to be put out to various civilian glider mainenance organisations. Again, as far as I can understand it, it won't be 'soon'.
As for Wander00's question - a quick summary just wouldn't be possible as I understand it; lot's of issues accross the board! From what I do know (which I'm not willing to share), then OC 2 FTS and his Chf Eng made exactly the right call to take the 'pause' - although, 1 year later I think I would actually call it a 'grounding'!! If something had happened in the last couple of years then I suspect Mr Charles Haddon-Cave QC would have carried out his threat of the military being on its final warning and taken military aircraft airworthiness out of our hands. We would be reporting to a seperate regulator for the airworthiness of military aircraft and all that would entail...
In my view, XV230 was lost because of a systemic breach of the Military Covenant brought about by significant failures on the part of all those involved. This must not be allowed to happen again.
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 13th May 2015 at 20:39.
It seems cash has been found to send some ATC pilots/instructors to civilian gliding clubs so that they can get current. My club has hosted several groups recently. They have invariably been keen, polite and grateful for the opportunity to get in the air again - very nice youngsters to have around.
They confirmed that there is a plan to send some Air Cadet gliders to civilian maintenance facilities. There is a problem with this however as the capacity at these organisations will be stretched, causing delays for the Air Cadet aircraft as well as civilian gliders needing repair or annual inspections. This situation has been made worse by EASA's demands putting some civilian maintenance operations out of business.
They confirmed that there is a plan to send some Air Cadet gliders to civilian maintenance facilities. There is a problem with this however as the capacity at these organisations will be stretched, causing delays for the Air Cadet aircraft as well as civilian gliders needing repair or annual inspections. This situation has been made worse by EASA's demands putting some civilian maintenance operations out of business.
Last edited by snapper1; 16th May 2015 at 12:02.
there is a plan to send some RAFGSA gliders to civilian maintenance facilities
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MOD Contemplate £20million+ Contract
Description of planned activity: The authority is considering running a competition for a Military Airworthiness Authority (MAA) Regulatory Publication / Military Part 145 Maintenance Approved Organisation Status (MRP/Mil Part 145 MAOS) approved organisation (or company able to achieve MRP/Mil Pt 145 MAOS approval) to provide Integrated Operating Support (IOS) to approximately 145 aircraft, the fleet of gliders used by the Air Cadet Organisation (ACO). The current fleet of aircraft have a funded Out-of-Service Date (OSD) of 31 March 2025, and it is expected that this contract will run until then, either for an initial period of 5 years with subsequent options, or for the full duration until OSD. However, industry engagement may indicate this is not suitable and other options may be considered. The requirement is expected to include:
SUPPORT ELEMENT:
A. Scheduled maintenance, rectification and associated engineering support services for the glider fleet (approximately 65 Vigilant self-launched motor gliders (SLMG) and approximately 80 Viking conventional winch launched gliders) based at the RAF Central Gliding School (CGS), RAF Syerston and the dispersed Volunteer Gliding Squadrons (VGS) across the UK (inc Northern Ireland).
B. A number of the Military Airworthiness Authority Regulatory Publication Military Part M Sub Part G (MOD Continuous Airworthiness Management Organisation (CAMO)) tasks (in whole or in part) on behalf of the MOD Continuous Airworthiness Manager (MODCAM).
C. Flight servicing activities to support CGS flying at RAF Syerston.
D. Provision of aircraft spares (other than Government Furnished Equipment (GFE)) to support the above activity, including acting as single point of contact for return of major components for repair and/or overhaul for both aircraft.
E. Provision and maintenance of a dry-lease, civil registered light aircraft to support aero-tow operations at RAF Syerston.
F. Winch launch consumables such as drogue chutes, carabiners etc
G. Spares-inclusive, repair and overhaul of Vigilant propellers (both legacy and future types).
H. On-aircraft embodiment of the modifications required for a Vigilant re-engine programme, to be developed by Grob Gmbh under contract from the United Kingdom Military Flying Training System Project Team (UKMFTS PT).
I. Support to all special to type ground support equipment including but not limited to glider launch winches, launch control caravans, fire response vehicles and fuel bowsers.
RECOVERY ELEMENT:
A. Possible recovery of any aircraft, subject to the glider recovery assurance programme, outstanding at the end of the current maintenance contract.
B. Possible recovery of approximately 20 currently stored, long-term unserviceable Viking aircraft.
Estimated Value Range excluding VAT:
It is expected that the value of the contract is thought to be category C banding until March 2025, with the Contract Notice being published in the OJEU and DCO in the summer of 2015. The Contract notice will be accompanied by an on-line Dynamic Pre-Qualification Questionnaire (PQQ). Interested suppliers will be invited to a market day to provide feedback thoughts and possible solutions the MOD may not have considered at RAF High Wycombe on the 29th of June 2015. All interested bidders are encouraged to attend this event. All comments made at this point may be considered, and a full requirement will be produced taking account of suppliers feedback and comments where relevant. The subsequent requirement will then be competed in line with Public Contract Regulations (2015), with contract award anticipated for late spring 2016.
SUPPORT ELEMENT:
A. Scheduled maintenance, rectification and associated engineering support services for the glider fleet (approximately 65 Vigilant self-launched motor gliders (SLMG) and approximately 80 Viking conventional winch launched gliders) based at the RAF Central Gliding School (CGS), RAF Syerston and the dispersed Volunteer Gliding Squadrons (VGS) across the UK (inc Northern Ireland).
B. A number of the Military Airworthiness Authority Regulatory Publication Military Part M Sub Part G (MOD Continuous Airworthiness Management Organisation (CAMO)) tasks (in whole or in part) on behalf of the MOD Continuous Airworthiness Manager (MODCAM).
C. Flight servicing activities to support CGS flying at RAF Syerston.
D. Provision of aircraft spares (other than Government Furnished Equipment (GFE)) to support the above activity, including acting as single point of contact for return of major components for repair and/or overhaul for both aircraft.
E. Provision and maintenance of a dry-lease, civil registered light aircraft to support aero-tow operations at RAF Syerston.
F. Winch launch consumables such as drogue chutes, carabiners etc
G. Spares-inclusive, repair and overhaul of Vigilant propellers (both legacy and future types).
H. On-aircraft embodiment of the modifications required for a Vigilant re-engine programme, to be developed by Grob Gmbh under contract from the United Kingdom Military Flying Training System Project Team (UKMFTS PT).
I. Support to all special to type ground support equipment including but not limited to glider launch winches, launch control caravans, fire response vehicles and fuel bowsers.
RECOVERY ELEMENT:
A. Possible recovery of any aircraft, subject to the glider recovery assurance programme, outstanding at the end of the current maintenance contract.
B. Possible recovery of approximately 20 currently stored, long-term unserviceable Viking aircraft.
Estimated Value Range excluding VAT:
It is expected that the value of the contract is thought to be category C banding until March 2025, with the Contract Notice being published in the OJEU and DCO in the summer of 2015. The Contract notice will be accompanied by an on-line Dynamic Pre-Qualification Questionnaire (PQQ). Interested suppliers will be invited to a market day to provide feedback thoughts and possible solutions the MOD may not have considered at RAF High Wycombe on the 29th of June 2015. All interested bidders are encouraged to attend this event. All comments made at this point may be considered, and a full requirement will be produced taking account of suppliers feedback and comments where relevant. The subsequent requirement will then be competed in line with Public Contract Regulations (2015), with contract award anticipated for late spring 2016.
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I wonder if there may be a problem with the instructional staff after the aircraft come back into service as I was speaking to a grounded instructor over the weekend who has found other things to do with his time and he told me that he would not be going back into ATC flying.
I wonder if there may be a problem with the instructional staff after the aircraft come back into service
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Perhaps they could try being more flexible with the volunteers they do get, then. A friend and colleague (with much flying experience, relevant and not) gave up in the end as there was no acceptance that not everyone has a 9-5 job with weekends free.
Serco job advert for glider technician which expired only 4 days ago...
Job Description
Serco is an international service company that improves the quality and efficiency of essential services that matter to millions of people around the world. The work we do for national and local governments involves us in the most important areas of public service, including health, education, transport, science and defence, and Our private sector customers are industry-leading organisations in a wide variety of markets.
RAF Syerston is currently a satellite airfield of RAF College Cranwell and home to the RAF Central Gliding School (CGS), part of 3 Flying Training School. The operations at Syerston consist of a mixture of light aircraft and gliders with occasional fast jet and helicopter movements in support of OACTU exercises and pre-deployment training.
Serco is currently recruiting for 4 Aircraft Technician Mechanical. The role is to generate and maintain serviceable aircraft to meet the flying requirement for No2 Flying Training School.
Responsibilities:
- Scheduled and corrective maintenance on Viking and Vigilant aircraft located at RAF Syerston airfield and at Volunteer Gliding Squadrons throughout the UK.
- Fault finding, problem solving and repair of Mechanical and Airframe systems in line with quality procedures.
- Ground movement of aircraft.
- Preparation of aircraft for road or air transportation.
- Certification and quality control of aircraft maintenance, components, ground equipment, service equipment and documentation relating to the completion of maintenance tasks.
- The participation in development and training of apprentices and others in line with the company succession plans
- Comply with all relevant Health, Safety and Environment regulations and exercise a Duty of Care promoting a positive approach towards workplace health and safety.
- Promote best practice, report bad practice and non-compliance and take preventative action to ensure continual improvement in the organization.
- The role requires flexibility to work with any element of the Maintenance Team and at any Volunteer Gliding School within No 2 Flying Training School as determined by business need.
Qualifications, Skills and Experience:
- Qualified Aircraft Airframe and/or Propulsion Mechanic/Technician - (City and Guilds Aeronautical Engineering Parts 1 and 2 or NVQ equivalent or higher qualification or a British Glider Associated Inspector).
- Experience in civilian industry or Armed Forces in a relevant trade group preferred.
- Possess good fault diagnosis skills, demonstrating a thorough understanding of aircraft mechanical systems.
- Hold full driving licence
- Previous Employment within a Continuous Airworthiness Maintenance Organisation preferred.
- Working knowledge of military or civilian aircraft maintenance documentation and publications preferred.
- Be physically able to meet manual handling requirements of aircraft rigging and de-rigging tasks and general aircraft maintenance.
Additional Information:
- This post will be located at RAF Syerston but the individual must be prepared to travel away from RAF Syerston overnight on a regular basis.
Serco is an international service company that improves the quality and efficiency of essential services that matter to millions of people around the world. The work we do for national and local governments involves us in the most important areas of public service, including health, education, transport, science and defence, and Our private sector customers are industry-leading organisations in a wide variety of markets.
RAF Syerston is currently a satellite airfield of RAF College Cranwell and home to the RAF Central Gliding School (CGS), part of 3 Flying Training School. The operations at Syerston consist of a mixture of light aircraft and gliders with occasional fast jet and helicopter movements in support of OACTU exercises and pre-deployment training.
Serco is currently recruiting for 4 Aircraft Technician Mechanical. The role is to generate and maintain serviceable aircraft to meet the flying requirement for No2 Flying Training School.
Responsibilities:
- Scheduled and corrective maintenance on Viking and Vigilant aircraft located at RAF Syerston airfield and at Volunteer Gliding Squadrons throughout the UK.
- Fault finding, problem solving and repair of Mechanical and Airframe systems in line with quality procedures.
- Ground movement of aircraft.
- Preparation of aircraft for road or air transportation.
- Certification and quality control of aircraft maintenance, components, ground equipment, service equipment and documentation relating to the completion of maintenance tasks.
- The participation in development and training of apprentices and others in line with the company succession plans
- Comply with all relevant Health, Safety and Environment regulations and exercise a Duty of Care promoting a positive approach towards workplace health and safety.
- Promote best practice, report bad practice and non-compliance and take preventative action to ensure continual improvement in the organization.
- The role requires flexibility to work with any element of the Maintenance Team and at any Volunteer Gliding School within No 2 Flying Training School as determined by business need.
Qualifications, Skills and Experience:
- Qualified Aircraft Airframe and/or Propulsion Mechanic/Technician - (City and Guilds Aeronautical Engineering Parts 1 and 2 or NVQ equivalent or higher qualification or a British Glider Associated Inspector).
- Experience in civilian industry or Armed Forces in a relevant trade group preferred.
- Possess good fault diagnosis skills, demonstrating a thorough understanding of aircraft mechanical systems.
- Hold full driving licence
- Previous Employment within a Continuous Airworthiness Maintenance Organisation preferred.
- Working knowledge of military or civilian aircraft maintenance documentation and publications preferred.
- Be physically able to meet manual handling requirements of aircraft rigging and de-rigging tasks and general aircraft maintenance.
Additional Information:
- This post will be located at RAF Syerston but the individual must be prepared to travel away from RAF Syerston overnight on a regular basis.
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If OC 2 FTS is who I think it is - someone who on appointment asked the first VRTs he met what they used to do for a job before getting involved with cadets - his focus is entirely on getting the job done and won't be interested in people having "real" lives. Fair enough in the RAF, but not the spirit needed to engage volunteers with.
I remember sitting on trap 2 at 231 OCU eng flt back in 1973ish,behind the door was a poster proclaiming 'Promote Flight Safety'...
Some wag had written in underneath ...
'By not Fokin Flying' !!
Very apt for the current state of Air Cadet gliding - there are other ways of getting the cadets airborne but those in command do not seem to want to allow that (as we have previously discussed).
The longer this goes on - Middletons command gets smaller !
Some wag had written in underneath ...
'By not Fokin Flying' !!
Very apt for the current state of Air Cadet gliding - there are other ways of getting the cadets airborne but those in command do not seem to want to allow that (as we have previously discussed).
The longer this goes on - Middletons command gets smaller !
OC 2 FTS
I wonder if there may be a problem with the instructional staff after the aircraft come back into service as I was speaking to a grounded instructor over the weekend who has found other things to do with his time and he told me that he would not be going back into ATC flying.
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Air Cadets Grounded
Bath water and Baby come to mind with this debacle. The Haddon cave scenario was really about a long term management problem trying to use old aircraft in a role they were not designed for and then the people at the sharp end trying to get the job done without proper engineering/design back up or a budget to ensure it was done correctly. Either way it is down to MONEY not being spent on the important frontline facility.
The ATC situation was different. They had a brand new fleet of SLMG and Gliders that by any standard had good back up and proper secure hangar facilities. Compared to a civvy operation they had a sheltered life overseen by a central engineering and operational system. If this had been operated under the BGA or RAFGSA as the parent body would the fleet have had to be grounded !!
The ATC had plenty of capable staff on the flying side that gave decades of trouble free operations, and the addition of the SLMG (usually using a converted VW engine) was not a problem; so what happened on the 'back up' side that was not fit for purpose to the point that they are not allowed to fly. I suggest that the decision to outsource important facilities and then allow your own in house expertise to decline will always find favour with the bean counters, and no heads can roll as it is so SAFE to do nothing.
The ATC situation was different. They had a brand new fleet of SLMG and Gliders that by any standard had good back up and proper secure hangar facilities. Compared to a civvy operation they had a sheltered life overseen by a central engineering and operational system. If this had been operated under the BGA or RAFGSA as the parent body would the fleet have had to be grounded !!
The ATC had plenty of capable staff on the flying side that gave decades of trouble free operations, and the addition of the SLMG (usually using a converted VW engine) was not a problem; so what happened on the 'back up' side that was not fit for purpose to the point that they are not allowed to fly. I suggest that the decision to outsource important facilities and then allow your own in house expertise to decline will always find favour with the bean counters, and no heads can roll as it is so SAFE to do nothing.
Pobjoy
Sorry, but I think you are wrong. The Haddon-Cave report was not about "trying to use an old aircraft in a role that it wasn't designed for" - the AAR system could have gone 'bang' on a maritime recce mission, just as much as on ops over AFG. Have a look at the executive summary and you'll see criticism of the way MoD do business on the whole. For example:
Sounds kind of familiar when it comes to the VGS set up - outsourcing, dilution of culture, delivery of change and large 'through-life' management structures (which IPT are gliders a part of?).
In support of OC 2FTS, he made the right decision in my opinion. Whilst it is unfortunate and unpalatable to those caught up in the aftermath, the chance of another loss of an Air Cadet, however small, being linked to some of the things they have found and been rectifying would probably have finished Cadet flying for good - it would also have seen another independent review and probably the MoD having to have its airworthiness independently regulated. Not good for all.
So, I think OC 2FTS made EXACTLY the right call here initially, but the progress has been cripplelingly slow. Seeing as VGS, AEF and UAS are not a part of MFTS then the longer this goes on then the more likely that the whole flying training of Air Cadets will end up being a different solution - there is scoping work ongoing on possible solutions right now. Possibly SDSR may have some role to play in this decsion?
For now, let's hope that we get some VGS capability back in the next 6-12 months. There is still an 'elephant in the room' for the Vigilant - what to do with the Grob engine that will become unsupported in years few? So even after a return to flight, the fleet is not 'out of the woods' just yet.
LJ
Sorry, but I think you are wrong. The Haddon-Cave report was not about "trying to use an old aircraft in a role that it wasn't designed for" - the AAR system could have gone 'bang' on a maritime recce mission, just as much as on ops over AFG. Have a look at the executive summary and you'll see criticism of the way MoD do business on the whole. For example:
History of MOD In-Service Support
19. Huge organisational changes took place in the MOD in-service support and airworthiness arrangements for Defence equipment and RAF aircraft in the years prior to the loss of XV230. There were three major themes at work: (a) a shift from organisation along purely ‘functional’ to project- oriented lines; (b) the ‘rolling up’ of organisations to create larger and larger ‘purple’ and ‘through- life’ management structures; and (c) ‘outsourcing’ to industry.
19. Huge organisational changes took place in the MOD in-service support and airworthiness arrangements for Defence equipment and RAF aircraft in the years prior to the loss of XV230. There were three major themes at work: (a) a shift from organisation along purely ‘functional’ to project- oriented lines; (b) the ‘rolling up’ of organisations to create larger and larger ‘purple’ and ‘through- life’ management structures; and (c) ‘outsourcing’ to industry.
Organisational trauma 1998-2006
21. The MOD suffered a sustained period of deep organisational trauma between 1998 and 2006, beginning with the 1998 Strategic Defence Review. Financial pressures and cuts drove a cascade of multifarious organisational changes, which led to a dilution of the airworthiness regime and culture within the MOD, and distraction from safety and airworthiness issues as the top priority. There was a shift in culture and priorities in the MOD towards ‘business’ and financial targets, at the expense of functional values such as safety and airworthiness. The Defence Logistics Organisation, in particular, came under huge pressure. Its primary focus became delivering ‘change’ and the ‘change programme’ and achieving the ‘Strategic Goal’ of a 20% reduction in output costs in five years and other financial savings. Airworthiness was a victim of the process started by the 1998 Strategic Defence Review.
21. The MOD suffered a sustained period of deep organisational trauma between 1998 and 2006, beginning with the 1998 Strategic Defence Review. Financial pressures and cuts drove a cascade of multifarious organisational changes, which led to a dilution of the airworthiness regime and culture within the MOD, and distraction from safety and airworthiness issues as the top priority. There was a shift in culture and priorities in the MOD towards ‘business’ and financial targets, at the expense of functional values such as safety and airworthiness. The Defence Logistics Organisation, in particular, came under huge pressure. Its primary focus became delivering ‘change’ and the ‘change programme’ and achieving the ‘Strategic Goal’ of a 20% reduction in output costs in five years and other financial savings. Airworthiness was a victim of the process started by the 1998 Strategic Defence Review.
In support of OC 2FTS, he made the right decision in my opinion. Whilst it is unfortunate and unpalatable to those caught up in the aftermath, the chance of another loss of an Air Cadet, however small, being linked to some of the things they have found and been rectifying would probably have finished Cadet flying for good - it would also have seen another independent review and probably the MoD having to have its airworthiness independently regulated. Not good for all.
So, I think OC 2FTS made EXACTLY the right call here initially, but the progress has been cripplelingly slow. Seeing as VGS, AEF and UAS are not a part of MFTS then the longer this goes on then the more likely that the whole flying training of Air Cadets will end up being a different solution - there is scoping work ongoing on possible solutions right now. Possibly SDSR may have some role to play in this decsion?
For now, let's hope that we get some VGS capability back in the next 6-12 months. There is still an 'elephant in the room' for the Vigilant - what to do with the Grob engine that will become unsupported in years few? So even after a return to flight, the fleet is not 'out of the woods' just yet.
LJ