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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 13th Sep 2016, 19:53
  #2841 (permalink)  
 
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The Halton scheme looks good on the face if it but I'm just curious if the pilots involved are checked out in any way.
Meet the ATCO35 requirements plus cleared to fly after OIC and CFI scrutiny. Careful briefing, flying supervision by the more experienced individuals on the day and oversight by the Cadet staff (VR(T) or CFV) makes for a pretty safe environment. It is also made quite clear to parents/guardians that this is a non-Service flying activity. However, it is conducted on a Government Aerodrome with a significant amount of military oversight and best practice - is this a perfect mix for this kind of activity?

All seems very sensible mitigations; it's just a shame that Public monies can't be spent on such schemes. If each RAF Flying Club flew just 100 cadets a year then that would be 1,400 cadets a year...Halton Aero Club normally flies 100 school children in an afternoon once per year! RAF Halton Flying Club Host Young Flyers

The B Word
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Old 13th Sep 2016, 20:19
  #2842 (permalink)  
 
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In a sense, public money is being spent as the operating costs of the airfield are probably lost in the noise. HAC is a really good Service club and it is most heartening to see them engage with our cadets. Not ideologically right, not pretty but it achieves the aim.
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Old 13th Sep 2016, 20:31
  #2843 (permalink)  
 
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hoodie:-
they couldn't climb to MSA due to the temperatures and lack of an Icing clearance.
Thank you hoodie, you beat me to it. As you say, the thread was long (and abrasive!). It divided between those of us who stated that we did not know for sure why ZD576 crashed on the Mull of Kintyre killing all 29 people on board, and those who did. What we did know was that the aircraft had been granted an RTS into full squadron service in a known grossly unairworthy condition by VSOs who had emulated the Apollo 13 commander's recommendation quoted by Frelon above (though admittedly not in the spirit it was meant);

you need to be a person who makes things happen
They were that all right, destroying UK Military Air Safety within months compared to the decades it had taken to build. The reason that the ACO is bereft of its most precious USP, its volunteer flown gliders, is for the very same reason. That is why I posted the link, that is why I commend "Their Greatest Disgrace" to all who contribute to this thread.
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Old 14th Sep 2016, 14:57
  #2844 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger View Post
In a sense, public money is being spent as the operating costs of the airfield are probably lost in the noise. HAC is a really good Service club and it is most heartening to see them engage with our cadets. Not ideologically right, not pretty but it achieves the aim.
It's my understanding the upkeep of Halton airfield was funded from the HQAC budget. With the withdrawl of the VGS, presumably funding will need to come from elsewhere.
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Old 14th Sep 2016, 19:00
  #2845 (permalink)  
 
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Chevvron

Re: Halton

It's funded by 22Gp as a 22Gp station and the Force Development Trg Centre that's been there doing gliding since 2004 from Bicester has always injected far more cash into the place than the Air Cadets.

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Old 15th Sep 2016, 13:15
  #2846 (permalink)  
 
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I must admit my info is a bit old; I was told it by the CFI of 613 VGS one day when the airfield was waterlogged so they weren't operating but the Halton Gliding Club was and they were churning up the surface.(before the GSA Centre moved in from Bicester)
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Old 16th Sep 2016, 19:06
  #2847 (permalink)  
 
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664 VGS

Tomorrow is the thirtieth and final anniversary of 664 VGS, Does anyone know the total number of aircraft, of both types, now serviceable? I find that facts help me when delivering sarcasm and vituperation on the heads of those responsible for this shameful episode in the history of the ACO.

A342
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Old 16th Sep 2016, 19:14
  #2848 (permalink)  
 
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I understand it is 5x Vigilants and 4x Vikings...
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Old 16th Sep 2016, 21:16
  #2849 (permalink)  
 
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342, will see you there , sadly I can not get pished ,doctors orders
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Old 16th Sep 2016, 22:39
  #2850 (permalink)  
 
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Some good news

A County Durham air cadet goes solo on his Air Cadet Pilot Scheme at Dundee ;
Chester-le-Street cadet spreads his wings with first solo flight (From The Northern Echo)
One of 186 cadets on the scheme .
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Old 16th Sep 2016, 22:58
  #2851 (permalink)  
 
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We had sixteen cadets flown in a Puma on Monday, pilot is a former cadet on the Sqn and wanted to do something for the cadets, some have been in close to three years and this was their first flight , lots of silly grins
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 08:22
  #2852 (permalink)  
 
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Congratulations to Adam

Marvelous news to read the Northern Echo story and hearty congratulations to Adam and the staff at 1507. Time was that the draw from the 647 VGS was so strong that OC 1507 decided to ban any cadet that became a staff cadet there from promotion on the squadron. My brother ended up as a C Cat with a flying scholarship/PPL and no stripes! Where there is a will there is a way.
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 09:37
  #2853 (permalink)  
 
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ACW VGL

That was common. My Squadron did not like me on the VGS one bit. As I was also a Region shooter (.303) there was always a clash of interests.

It got referred to Wing HQ (Kent) for decisions, the Squadron saying they wanted me to partake in Squadron Activities (I was the Duke of Edinburgh Award Coach), the Wing Musketry Officer wanting me to shoot for Wing and the VGS wanting me to fly weekends.

VGS won. The Wg Cdr was ex-CO of 618 VGS :-)

I do believe it cost me promotion at the Squadron though as my contemporaries (those that lasted) overtook me quickly for no obvious reason I could see.................

Arc
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Old 20th Sep 2016, 13:30
  #2854 (permalink)  
UV
 
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Arc...Ah, that would be J.F then. You weren't the only one at the time, I knew numerous at W.M. in the same boat.
Petty jealousy.
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Old 20th Sep 2016, 21:12
  #2855 (permalink)  
 
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clash of interests

MY Staff Cdt v Sqdn NCO thing came to blows when offered an interview for an overseas flight to Canada which would also have included visits to their Cadet organisation (and no doubt some more gliding).

The Wing panel were not impressed with my slightly grubby uniform even though i explained that the f/sgt stripes were the victim of yet another rapid intervention in clearing a fouled cable drum on the winch without time to get into denims. The next chap was an immaculately presented bandmaster Cdt WO (no gliding wings) with more gold braid and tassels than Idi Amin. No prizes as to who went to Canada.
My Squadron CO was great (ex wartime pilot) so never stood in the way of Gliding duties as long as i kept the drill standard up, and made sure we were well turned out at the Wing Parades (held on our airfield). He accepted the fact that i would arrive by landrover at the last moment having disgorged other Cadets to their various Squadrons forming up for the event. The Corps was run for flying in those days and managed in the main by ex aircrew.

Last edited by POBJOY; 21st Sep 2016 at 09:25.
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Old 22nd Sep 2016, 17:49
  #2856 (permalink)  
 
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Excellent news that VGS flying has restarted at Topcliffe with 3x Vigilants working on staff currency. A drop in the ocean however slightly closer to having cadets in the air.
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Old 23rd Sep 2016, 14:28
  #2857 (permalink)  
 
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TYNE

That is the first positive bit of news for ACO Gliding in a long time !!

Hoorah !

Arc
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 01:03
  #2858 (permalink)  
 
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Isn't it ironic that the CAS's Reading List 2016 contains only one full sized picture in it - that of an Air Cadet glider in the 1960s! The same 2016 that he and his SLT cohort allowed the whole organisation to be halved after a 2.5year "pause". Further is that it all happened on the big man's watch before he handed over to current CAS?

http://www.airpowerstudies.co.uk/sit...-LIST-2016.pdf
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 05:38
  #2859 (permalink)  
 
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iRaven

To be fair to ACM Pulford (Retired), he inherited nearly 3 decades of neglect, and even if he had anyone who knew what to do about it, it would be impossible to correct matters during his short tenure. He had a double whammy to contend with because we're still waiting for the MAA to acknowledge what the root problem was.
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 09:00
  #2860 (permalink)  
 
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Tuc

I agree on the inherited problem, but I disagree on the 'after action'. There were options to act and get another type of aircraft for the VGS; indeed there still is. A brand new Rotax Falke is ~70k and an ASK-21 is ~80k, with the latter already checked out by the BSD folks with APs and FRCs already written (if they insisted on running them as military aircraft - running them as BGA aircraft would be far easier and cheaper!). Before the 'pause' it was known that the 60-odd Vigilants needed new engines and IIRC the cost of the Rotax replacement was circa 60-70k per airframe! So the money was there in the Annual Budget Cycle to do this work commencing in 2015 but was somehow allowed to be frittered away. There are other projects in the RAF where vast sums of money are being wasted - the infrastructure budget and the moving of units around at HUGE expense to provide a shiney new facility (and legacy for the senior officer that proposed it) only to move again in years few, or sometimes not at all after very costly studies (the move of RAFCAM from North Luffenham and the great St Athan/Lyneham/Cosford debacle are 2 that spring to mind). We could have found the 4-5 million to get the Air Cadets new gliders to operate if the leadership and intent was there; and as we know leadership starts from the very top. When the music stopped Pully was holding the parcel and he could have taken a better decision than to try and expand AEFs - which we know is nowhere near as good an activity as gliding for youths as it doesn't have that option send them solo. In years to come will Pully's legacy be that he allowed Air Cadet gliding to slip through our fingers?

Sorry mate, but just like a CEO or Chairman of the Board of a commercial organisation, when poor decisions are made then the heads of sheds must bear responsibility, at least in part. So having a picture of an Air Cadet glidier in his 'reading list' is a poor decision in my opinion.

All inn my humble opinion of course.

iRaven
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