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Are the Russians taking a tougher stance ?

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Are the Russians taking a tougher stance ?

Old 24th Apr 2014, 20:01
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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They may get a none nuclear flash then that could burn the retinas out of the back of their eyeballs if he's on the loo..
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 07:44
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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The Ministry of Defence has released images from the 23rd April of the two Tu-95MS Bear H.

5 Stunning Images Of Russian TU-95 Bear Aircraft That Approached Coast Of Scotland On Wednesday (PICTURES)
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 09:05
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Actual capabilities aside, that is a seriously good looking russian aeroplane......can't we send over a mariti.........
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 09:36
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Short joke: Didn't the Norwegians just hear the noise of these beasts and decided they were too far away?

Ok, joking aside. Putin is really going for it. In Sweden we have only remnants left of what once was a pretty decent defence system. Soooo, Putin boats can do pretty much anything around here. Which they do.

An article in a Swedish newspaper, where a Russian ship tapped in on the Swedish military conversations.

Här spionerar Ryssland på Sverige | Inrikes | SvD



The yellow blobs are Sensitive Sooper Seeekrit Swedish Defence Talks and Excercises and the red line is where the ship sneaked around. Gotland and Öland belongs to Sweden but there is something like 10 metres of international water between them so the Capt of that boat is a hell of a navigator.

Another joke: Our prime super duper extra top army general with extra bling (in Swedish: Överbefälhavare) sad, like two years ago, that the Swedish army could withstand ONE attack from ONE target only for ONE week. Now, the comedians in our country laughs at this and says that when the Russians invade, then we will have a proper defense worth bragging about! Black humour, methinks...
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 09:47
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If they are Russian shouldn't they have RT on the tail instead of BBC...?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 11:00
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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The TU-95s were escorted by a pair of MiG-31interceptors

No piccies?

Denmark, Netherlands, and Britain scrambled jets, Norway not | Barentsobserver
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 11:13
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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The bloke has lost the plot.

The president warns against hostile action and terrorism in the Arctic and says regional oil installations must be protected. At the same time, he signs a law, empowering oil companies to establish their own armed forces.


Putin arms Arctic drillers | Barentsobserver

This will go down well with joe public if the companies say no.

Facebook, Gmail, Skype face Russia ban under 'anti-terror' plan - CNET
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 14:55
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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"This will go down well with joe public if the companies say no."

are you joking? some oil companies are FULL of people like Gareth from "The Office" - hell they'd buy F-35's if you let them.........................
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 17:32
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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H Harry,

Joe public as in comrade Joe public,
it's ok relaxing the old Iron Curtain and embracing the west as they have, the new generation of Russians will not remember the bad old days, shops with nothing on the shelves, KGB watching the populace, Trabbants and a Country ruled by a Dictator. They have grown up in a relatively free country, true you can raise a fervour in the Country with propaganda about those bad guys in the Ukraine so far away. But when big companies refusing to bow down to his demands that data must be held in Russia then it starts to hit home when their Facebook, Twitter accounts etc suddenly stop working and their Visa cards stop as well.... He needs to keep his populace onside, it seems an odd way to do it.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 18:48
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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If they are Russian shouldn't they have RT on the tail instead of BBC...?
I was wondering that , however, ввс россии translates as военно (military) воздушные (Air) силы (Force / Forces ) россии (Russia / Russian) = Russian Air Force.
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 01:40
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Red face Russian bears

So when they approach our airspace we gently see them off.Do we ever let them come nearer to see how far they would come before turning back?
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 16:05
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Following on from oldpax's question, I'll repeat mine:

What is considered "British airspace" in these circumstances. Is it the 12 nm limit or is there an ADIZ?
or do you wait until they are in the Leuchars ATZ?
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 17:30
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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India Four Two,
See following.

UK Flight Information Region



Supplementary memorandum from the Ministry of Defence

1a. How many times have Russian military aircraft attempted to enter UK territorial airspace in 2007, 2008 and 2009, without authorisation?

ANSWER

— Nil.
No Russian military aircraft have attempted to enter UK territorial airspace, which extends 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline.

Russian military aircraft operate in international airspace and have every right to exercise their defence capabilities.

1b. How many times have Russian military aircraft attempted to enter the UK flight information region in 2007, 2008 and 2009, without authorisation?

ANSWER

— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on 10 separate days in 2007.
— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on six separate days in 2008.
— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on two separate days in 2009 (correct as of 1 May).

The UK Flight Information Region, outside of 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline, remains international airspace
but to transit the area aircraft are required to file flight plans, communicate with Air Traffic Control and utilise secondary surveillance radar (SSR),
a means for providing information on the air traffic control agency and height. Russian military aircraft do not adhere to these accepted
Air Traffic Control requirements.

This is against International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) regulations for which Russia is a signatory state and poses
a potential flight safety risk. We are taking this issue forward with Department for Transport,
who through the Civil Aviation Authority and the National Air Traffic Services contract provide Air Traffic Control services.

The UK Flight Information Region (see map below) contains some of the busiest airspace in Europe including the transatlantic air route structure.
Within the UK Flight Information Region, Air Traffic Control operations rely largely on SSR to maintain safe distances
between aircraft operating in close proximity. Aircraft not transponding SSR can therefore be invisible to
Air Traffic Control operators. Risks to flight safety are mitigated by close liaison between UK Air Defence and Air Traffic Control units.
Air Defence units use a combination of primary radar and SSR and are able to detect such aircraft within Air Defence radar coverage.
The launch of UK Quick Reaction Alert aircraft to intercept unidentified aircraft also mitigates the flight safety risk.
House of Commons - Defence Committee - Written Evidence

47. The UK press have featured stories that imply that Russia's air tactics are a threat to UK security.

[76] We sought information from the MoD to clarify the scale and nature of the issue of military incursions into NATO and UK airspace.

We were told that during 2007-2009 no Russian aircraft have entered UK airspace—defined as 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline—without authorisation.

However, Russian military aircraft have entered the UK Flight Information Region—outside UK territorial airspace—without permission.

This is part of international airspace and, as such, Russia is able to exercise its defence capabilities there.
House of Commons - Russia: a new confrontation? - Defence Committee

The latest figures on Russian long-range bombers over the North Sea were released by the Ministry of Defence under Freedom of Information laws.

On each of the 47 occasions since 2008, the Russians entered the Scottish Flight Information Region but turned back before they reached the UK's 12 mile sovereign airspace.

There have also been nine approved visits where Russian aircraft were flown directly over Scotland, including refuelling stops.
SNP pledge Scottish air force as Russian deterrent | UK | News | Daily Express
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Old 27th Apr 2014, 12:41
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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TEEJ,

Thanks for the information. Fascinating stuff, but completely contradictory information from the MOD.

In the first quote:
to transit the area aircraft are required to file flight plans, communicate with Air Traffic Control and utilise secondary surveillance radar (SSR),
a means for providing information on the air traffic control agency and height. Russian military aircraft do not adhere to these accepted
Air Traffic Control requirements.
and in the second:
However, Russian military aircraft have entered the UK Flight Information Region—outside UK territorial airspace—without permission.

This is part of international airspace and, as such, Russia is able to exercise its defence capabilities there.
So even Sir Humphrey can't make up his mind on this one.
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Old 28th Apr 2014, 20:05
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting Thatcher quote from 20 years ago.


"I cannot imagine how any diplomat, or any dramatist, could improve on ( Ronald Reagan's ) words to Mikhail Gorbachev at the Geneva summit: 'Let me tell you why it is we distrust you.' Those words are candid and tough and they cannot have been easy to hear. But they are also a clear invitation to a new beginning and a new relationship that would be rooted in trust." -- Eulogy at the funeral of former President Ronald Reagan, June 11, 2004.
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 01:41
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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The Ministry of Defence has released images from the 23rd April of the two Tu-95MS Bear H.
I guess I missed it. I thought they ditched the Soviet red star marking unless I'm mistaken?
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 10:23
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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WhatsaLizad? wrote

I thought they ditched the Soviet red star marking unless I'm mistaken?
During the early 1990s the Russians opted to keep a star. It appears that they are going to return to a one-tone red star

From 2013

Soviet Markings Return to the Russian Air Force

Russia’s Air Force Command, in agreement with the Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu, is changing the identification markings on its military aircraft. The newspaper “Izvestiya,” citing a source in the military department, writes that instead of red stars with piping in the colors of the Russian flag (white, blue, and red) a simple red star will be used, similar to those formerly painted on Soviet aircraft. There is a single difference—the stars will be smaller.

Russia’s Air Force Command assesses that the bright stars with tricolor piping break up the camouflage of its aircraft in flight. The basic idea of switching out identification markings is derived from the perception that they strongly contrast with the camouflage paint schemes of airplanes and helicopters. Such paint patterns are meant to erode the contours of aircraft, making them imperceptible at long distances and harder to identify by type at short distances.

In accordance with Shoigu’s decision, Russian military airplanes and helicopters will carry the one-tone red star without piping and the star’s size will be decreased by half. Such a variation in markings for Russian Air Force aircraft will not appear definitive, as the red star, even without the piping, contrasts with current camouflage schemes. In the long-term, Russian aircraft are planned to carry outlined identification markings in the shape of a star, a concept already worked out and undergoing trials.

The Russian Air Force is currently flying the proposed outlined identification markings only on the T-50 fighter (also known as the Prospective Front Aviation Aircraft System or PAK FA), and the markings are carried on all four existing prototypes. The Russian Ministry of Defense’s Scientific-Investigation Institute is currently defining the optimal thickness and size of the new identification markings. Outlining the star with a dotted-line pattern is also a possibility.

Identification markings in the form of a one-tone red star without piping were used on Soviet Air Force aircraft from 1918 to 1943, and then were switched out for red stars with white piping and a thin red outline. They were maintained in this form until March of 2010, when then-serving Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdiukov decided they would be exchanged for stars with tri-color piping and a thin red outline.

After the fall of the USSR, certain Russian military and political leaders called for replacing the red star as an identification marking, with some proposing the use of Russia’s state flag or even the aircraft markings of the Russian Empire. Nevertheless, in the first half of the ‘90s, the decision was taken to keep the red star on airplanes and helicopters because it is a well-known recognition symbol throughout the world.

In the meantime, replacing recognition markings is not the only change expected for Russian Air Force aircraft. At the end of December 2012 Shoigu decided to abandon the common gray-shade camouflage pattern. In the coming year, aircraft repaired, modernized, or fresh from the factories will be painted in colors characterizing the region in which they are based.
Foreign Military Studies Office - Operational Environment Watch April 2013

Sukhoi T-50s with proposed identification markings.

Photos: Sukhoi T-50 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Photos: Sukhoi T-50 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Photos: Sukhoi T-50 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 12:26
  #38 (permalink)  
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From the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (which has some relevance to the airspace as well; Article 2 2):






PART II



TERRITORIAL SEA AND CONTIGUOUS ZONE



SECTION 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS



Article2



Legal status of the territorial sea, ofthe air space over the territorial sea and of its bedand subsoil


1.The sovereignty of a coastal State extends, beyond its land territory andinternal waters and, in the case of an archipelagic State, its archipelagicwaters, to an adjacent belt of sea, described as the territorial sea.

2.This sovereignty extends to the air space over the territorial sea as well asto its bed and subsoil.

3.The sovereignty over the territorial sea is exercised subject to thisConvention and to other rules of international law.


SECTION 2. LIMITS OF THE TERRITORIAL SEA



Article3



Breadth of the territorial sea


EveryState has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to alimit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined inaccordance with this Convention.


Article4



Outer limit of the territorial sea


Theouter limit of the territorial sea is the line every point of which is at adistance from the nearest point of the baseline equal to the breadth of theterritorial sea.


Article5



Normal baseline


Exceptwhere otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuringthe breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast asmarked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Mister B

(I was looking because Alec Salmond was intimating that in the event of separation from UK if the EU did not let Scotland join the club, he would deny access by EU boats (French and Spanish etc fishing types) to Scottish waters - big deal, 12 nm exclusion zone)
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Old 12th May 2014, 20:28
  #39 (permalink)  
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The Russians are keeping their flying hours up!

Japan fighters scramble more to see off Chinese, Russians- Nikkei Asian Review
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Old 12th May 2014, 20:30
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China is certainly ramping up pressure over there, in that area at least.
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