Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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The Duke of Westminster
Very sorry to hear of the passing of the DoW at the age of 64. He came to visit Lyneham in his capacity as head of Auxiliary forces and watched a sortie in the K Sim.
Afterwards we were presented to him as members of 1359 Flt RauxAF and he asked us "In layman's terms, what is the difference between the K and the J model Hercules simulator?" I said "Well sir there are four crew members on the K flight deck all teasing out information from our various pieces of kit but on a J there are just two pilots and a computer"
"Who tell them how to get to where they are going?" he asked
"The pilots just plumb it into the computer like you would on the GPS in your car" I ventured.
"'Strordinary" he said, "And what happens if the computer gets shot up?"
"Then they're bu$$ered " said the Flight Eng.
"I see" he said
A very nice chap and very on side with the forces. Sadly missed.
Afterwards we were presented to him as members of 1359 Flt RauxAF and he asked us "In layman's terms, what is the difference between the K and the J model Hercules simulator?" I said "Well sir there are four crew members on the K flight deck all teasing out information from our various pieces of kit but on a J there are just two pilots and a computer"
"Who tell them how to get to where they are going?" he asked
"The pilots just plumb it into the computer like you would on the GPS in your car" I ventured.
"'Strordinary" he said, "And what happens if the computer gets shot up?"
"Then they're bu$$ered " said the Flight Eng.
"I see" he said
A very nice chap and very on side with the forces. Sadly missed.
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Afterwards we were presented to him as members of 1359 Flt RauxAF and he asked us "In layman's terms, what is the difference between the K and the J model Hercules simulator?" I said "Well sir there are four crew members on the K flight deck all teasing out information from our various pieces of kit but on a J there are just two pilots and a computer"
"Who tell them how to get to where they are going?" he asked
"The pilots just plumb it into the computer like you would on the GPS in your car" I ventured.
"'Strordinary" he said, "And what happens if the computer gets shot up?"
"Then they're bu$$ered " said the Flight Eng.
"I see" he said
"Who tell them how to get to where they are going?" he asked
"The pilots just plumb it into the computer like you would on the GPS in your car" I ventured.
"'Strordinary" he said, "And what happens if the computer gets shot up?"
"Then they're bu$$ered " said the Flight Eng.
"I see" he said
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The occasion when the noble Duke visited Lyneham was some time ago when the J was relatively new and his request was to be enlightened "in layman's terms" which we kept as simple as possible. I am sure that all Navs and Engs wish the best of luck to those soldiering on with the last Herc type in the R.A.F.
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As a tribute to past times, the Westbury Cement Works chimney known to all tactical Herc operators as "Smoky Joe", the instantly recognisable clue to the run in at Keevil DZ was demolished yesterday. Another icon gone,
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Someone asked on the other thread if Mike (Coff) had served at Lyneham. He had not worked on the Herc or at Lyneham so far as I know but had a real genuine interest. As AA62 says, without his encouragement many of the stories unfolding on here would remain untold. Lets hope we get to the million as a tribute Doug.
Who is going to share the SOP for uploading pictures now?
Drag.
Who is going to share the SOP for uploading pictures now?
Drag.
I had the good fortune to meet Mike (Coffman Starter) at the Tangmere Aviation Museum. He had not served in the RAF but if I recall correctly he had served with the RAFVR(T). He had a deep interest in all things aviation which is why he flagged up the 'Global Aviation' article which resulted in this thread becoming what it is. His best loved a/c was the Chipmunk. We will miss his gentle humour, his patience and his expertise.
The story in some of today's papers re young EasyJet captain and first officer got me to thinking about the youngest pair of pilots I flew with in my short career.
As captain, John Lambert ( RIP ) in 1971 when he was 24 years old, though the co-pilots listed in my logbook were possibly older than him except for a Fg Off Thomas, who I sadly cannot recall.
Then I remembered that when I did the OCU in '67 co-pilots used to do one solo from the left hand seat with another co in the right hand seat. I was just 21, Bob Willson as the co was also 21, and Malcolm Hunt in the left hand seat was probably the same age though he could have been younger.
Which begs a question - did co-pilots do a solo on the OCU throughout the life of the K? If not when did it cease?
As captain, John Lambert ( RIP ) in 1971 when he was 24 years old, though the co-pilots listed in my logbook were possibly older than him except for a Fg Off Thomas, who I sadly cannot recall.
Then I remembered that when I did the OCU in '67 co-pilots used to do one solo from the left hand seat with another co in the right hand seat. I was just 21, Bob Willson as the co was also 21, and Malcolm Hunt in the left hand seat was probably the same age though he could have been younger.
Which begs a question - did co-pilots do a solo on the OCU throughout the life of the K? If not when did it cease?
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There wasn't a co-pilots' solo when I went through the OCU in the early 90s, I'm surprised that it ever happened as the co was only trained to sit in the RHS. There was a crew solo where we went off without any of the instructors but it was made absolutely clear that the student captain was to be the handling pilot, I was not to touch the controls. By the time I did my captain's course that sortie had been taken out of the syllabus.
Thanks Ken - I've just exchanged emails ( celebrating the two of us reaching 70 yrs old ) with my mate A****, who was boss of the OCU c1992, and he confirms it was no longer done. He thinks it was a throwback to the Hastings/Beverley days when co-pilots could not log 1st pilot time unless they had been LH seat checked.
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There's quite a difference between checking someone in the LHS & letting them off solo there! Co pilots in the C17 & A400M today qualify in both seats as handling & non-handling pilot (not in the C130J or Voyager though) but I don't think you'd find an authoriser prepared to send them off on their own with another co! They were clearly much less restrictive days.
Incidentally, how did you feel about going off with 2 co-pilots in the driving seats? I'm guessing that at your age then you saw no problem with it?
Congratulations on achieving your 7 decades milestone.
Incidentally, how did you feel about going off with 2 co-pilots in the driving seats? I'm guessing that at your age then you saw no problem with it?
Congratulations on achieving your 7 decades milestone.
So sorry to hear about Coffman. AA62 is quite right, without him this thread would not have happened. Legacy!
On the subject of mutual co-pilot training I remember when I started flying Hastings at Lindholme in 69 the tales, especially from the flight engineers, about co-pilots together on the north south runway at Colerne. It was only much later in the early 90s when 3AEF moved from Hullavington to Colerne that I saw for myself the very marked hump about 1000 feet into the 4000 ish southerly runway. Very interesting in a Chipmunk, there's the link with Coff, but in a Hastings the potential for getting it wrong must have been endless.
On a v different tack does anyone remember the flat nylon lashing tape that was in vogue for short time in the 80s?
AA62 what was the story behind its introduction and rapid demise? I've found it useful in the garden but raise the subject because I'm close to running out. Not a problem as I've found plenty of unused garden twine in my late father's house.
1066
On the subject of mutual co-pilot training I remember when I started flying Hastings at Lindholme in 69 the tales, especially from the flight engineers, about co-pilots together on the north south runway at Colerne. It was only much later in the early 90s when 3AEF moved from Hullavington to Colerne that I saw for myself the very marked hump about 1000 feet into the 4000 ish southerly runway. Very interesting in a Chipmunk, there's the link with Coff, but in a Hastings the potential for getting it wrong must have been endless.
On a v different tack does anyone remember the flat nylon lashing tape that was in vogue for short time in the 80s?
AA62 what was the story behind its introduction and rapid demise? I've found it useful in the garden but raise the subject because I'm close to running out. Not a problem as I've found plenty of unused garden twine in my late father's house.
1066
Ref the flat 'nylon' lashing tape, the introduction of which was solely to save money. It suffered the usual 'nylon' problems of stretch and actinic degradation.
It also had a lower rating than normal lashing tape so of course more was used to do the same job. Eventually the penny dropped even with the bean counters and normal service was resumed.
It also had a lower rating than normal lashing tape so of course more was used to do the same job. Eventually the penny dropped even with the bean counters and normal service was resumed.
Ken
Thank you very much for your congrats' - mind you, yesterday when I was riding my bike and racing myself on the Garmin thingie that my son bought me for my 70th, I felt every day of my age!
Back in '67, knowing b*gger all about what pilots could or could not do, I didn't give any thought to the 'danger' I may have been in. At Nav' School some advice was given re pilots i.e. avoid anyone wearing a coloured scarf with his flying suit, and on your first squadron look for an old Master Pilot with a large family to support.
As the end of my second tour approached and now the father of 3 children, my concern for my own well-being was much greater! The eldest of those 3 was warned emphatically not to frighten me f**tless when he gave me a ride in a Jaguar some 20 years later in 1993!
Back in '67, knowing b*gger all about what pilots could or could not do, I didn't give any thought to the 'danger' I may have been in. At Nav' School some advice was given re pilots i.e. avoid anyone wearing a coloured scarf with his flying suit, and on your first squadron look for an old Master Pilot with a large family to support.
As the end of my second tour approached and now the father of 3 children, my concern for my own well-being was much greater! The eldest of those 3 was warned emphatically not to frighten me f**tless when he gave me a ride in a Jaguar some 20 years later in 1993!
Copilot Solos
Thanks Ken - I've just exchanged emails ( celebrating the two of us reaching 70 yrs old ) with my mate A****, who was boss of the OCU c1992, and he confirms it was no longer done. He thinks it was a throwback to the Hastings/Beverley days when co-pilots could not log 1st pilot time unless they had been LH seat checked.
