Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Stupid, ignorant comment from someone who knows no better, or has a big chip on their shoulder.
30+ years in, I have lost many mates; no correlation with being a QFI and accident rate.
30+ years in, I have lost many mates; no correlation with being a QFI and accident rate.
When I was on 48 I'm sure I never experienced more than 30-40 degrees of bank, which suited me fine! Not long after joining 30Sqn I was on a sortie that involved displaying at 4 different locations for RAFA shows - North Weald was one, Henlow another and maybe Sleap.
I was absolutely horrified when the skipper, a Flt Cdr, Peter Henley, put 90 degrees of bank on at about 300'. To my mind it was stupid and dangerous, but then that was back in the day ( 1970 ) when the Herc' was very much a route flying aircraft. I've no idea if PH was a QFI, but the only consolation was that the co-pilot, Chris Cureton was ex-Lightnings. I made a mental note to avoid flying with Henley again. An image that had stuck in my mind for the previous 2 years was the sequence of photographs in Air Clues, (or was it ASC Safety Review? ), of the Argosy in Libya that had gone in after the idiot flying it had decided to beat up the strip that they had just departed from and the wing tip struck a water tower.
Many years later while I was in Stornaway as a civil ATCO, Peter Henley, by then with Bae, brought a 748 in on demonstration for the Scottish Fisheries Office. His take-off technique had me reaching for the crash alarm as I was convinced he had put excessive bank on after rotating! I think he was a bloody show-off. He worked as a test pilot for Bae, without having done a TP course - I know because my son used to organise the annual tp get together at Boscombe.
The J*** B***** referred to above - was he the Staish that my old mate George Brown said was the most detested since F***** Y******?
I was absolutely horrified when the skipper, a Flt Cdr, Peter Henley, put 90 degrees of bank on at about 300'. To my mind it was stupid and dangerous, but then that was back in the day ( 1970 ) when the Herc' was very much a route flying aircraft. I've no idea if PH was a QFI, but the only consolation was that the co-pilot, Chris Cureton was ex-Lightnings. I made a mental note to avoid flying with Henley again. An image that had stuck in my mind for the previous 2 years was the sequence of photographs in Air Clues, (or was it ASC Safety Review? ), of the Argosy in Libya that had gone in after the idiot flying it had decided to beat up the strip that they had just departed from and the wing tip struck a water tower.
Many years later while I was in Stornaway as a civil ATCO, Peter Henley, by then with Bae, brought a 748 in on demonstration for the Scottish Fisheries Office. His take-off technique had me reaching for the crash alarm as I was convinced he had put excessive bank on after rotating! I think he was a bloody show-off. He worked as a test pilot for Bae, without having done a TP course - I know because my son used to organise the annual tp get together at Boscombe.
The J*** B***** referred to above - was he the Staish that my old mate George Brown said was the most detested since F***** Y******?
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Yes Brian I believe it is.
I also knew Pete Henley, but apparently I'm now stupid and ignorant so will refrain from agreeing in case it be deemed provocative.
Odd isn't it when a simple statement of FACT engenders that kind of response- I mean, I can even name them after all these years. Still, after 45 years in aviation, what would I know?
Comment complete.
I also knew Pete Henley, but apparently I'm now stupid and ignorant so will refrain from agreeing in case it be deemed provocative.
Odd isn't it when a simple statement of FACT engenders that kind of response- I mean, I can even name them after all these years. Still, after 45 years in aviation, what would I know?
Comment complete.
Last edited by Brian W May; 9th Nov 2015 at 19:39.
DeanoP
DeanoP,
Thank you for sharing those marvelous shots of Everest . Must have been a wonderful experience . Almost ' twice in a lifetime ' .
On the second trip did you fly through the Col ? Or was it a case of ''Whoop Whoop , Pull up ''?
Still have a memory of a couple of years ago , out for walk in the September 'gloaming' , only to hear an hum and look around to see an Herk between Hambledon Hill and Hod Hill , just over the mini Col .
But 28000 ' and some higher must been something .
thanks rgds condor
Thank you for sharing those marvelous shots of Everest . Must have been a wonderful experience . Almost ' twice in a lifetime ' .
On the second trip did you fly through the Col ? Or was it a case of ''Whoop Whoop , Pull up ''?
Still have a memory of a couple of years ago , out for walk in the September 'gloaming' , only to hear an hum and look around to see an Herk between Hambledon Hill and Hod Hill , just over the mini Col .
But 28000 ' and some higher must been something .
thanks rgds condor
Dean and AA62,
I had not long been with 3AEF, John Stapp finally retired as Boss about the same time, no coincidence I hope, when the Saint Athan fatal happened. The pilot had been guesting at Hullavington not long before.
I don't suppose any of his history came out in the BoI.
I also doubt whether any of this history was ever written in his reports.
If it had been reported, one would have hoped that he would not have been given such a senior flying supervisory role?
Lots of hidden Swiss cheese slices!
1066
I had not long been with 3AEF, John Stapp finally retired as Boss about the same time, no coincidence I hope, when the Saint Athan fatal happened. The pilot had been guesting at Hullavington not long before.
I don't suppose any of his history came out in the BoI.
I also doubt whether any of this history was ever written in his reports.
If it had been reported, one would have hoped that he would not have been given such a senior flying supervisory role?
Lots of hidden Swiss cheese slices!
1066
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Stupid, ignorant comment from someone who knows no better, or has a big chip on their shoulder.
John Stappard in my personal experience was a joy to fly with, we were instructors together on 242 OCU - gentleman.
Re #3816
DeanoP,
What a surprise I got when I saw you'd put up a photo of my old Dad in your post (back row, third from left). I hadn't seen that one before, so a huge thank you. I had been thinking that all of you that share 48 Sqn memories would have known him, feel free to PM if any of you did.
VS.
What a surprise I got when I saw you'd put up a photo of my old Dad in your post (back row, third from left). I hadn't seen that one before, so a huge thank you. I had been thinking that all of you that share 48 Sqn memories would have known him, feel free to PM if any of you did.
VS.
Last edited by Vasco Sodcat; 9th Nov 2015 at 21:43. Reason: Clarity
Posters,
we must be careful to ensure that this wonderful thread does not degenerate into the type of personal slanging match that so blights others.
I wonder if Dean or Brian48Nav have anymore pics they can share with us.
Dragartist have you seen Dean's pics of Valetta airdrops on the Khormaksar thread ?
we must be careful to ensure that this wonderful thread does not degenerate into the type of personal slanging match that so blights others.
I wonder if Dean or Brian48Nav have anymore pics they can share with us.
Dragartist have you seen Dean's pics of Valetta airdrops on the Khormaksar thread ?
I recall someone asking a while ago if we could have more input from the 'two winged master race' as to what the aircraft was like to fly, what it was like at OCU, even comments from those who were maybe streamed multi against their wishes and how they found it. I for one would like to read posts from such people.
A fascinating thread so far, when we had a somewhat larger RAF than we have these days!
A fascinating thread so far, when we had a somewhat larger RAF than we have these days!
Fuanafuti?
Towards the end of one of those wonderful trips: Changi, Port Moresby, Tarawa, Christmas Island, Honolulu, Christmas, Tarawa, Funafuti, Port Moresby, Darwin, Changi. I think this is Funafuti as we had to deliver a large carpet for a forthcoming Royal Visit, I believe. This picture taken 26th August 1970. Was AA62 on this trip?
Last edited by DeanoP; 15th Nov 2020 at 15:16. Reason: Reinserted photo deleted by Photobox
Mt Everest
Condor 17 Ref Post No 3867
I think we did fly over the Col although I do not have a clear recollection of the event. I remember calling the range to Mt. Everest using the E290 radar and thinking afterwards that we had strayed in to Chinese airspace so we must have circled the mountain. It was a very calm day but I do not remember any of us talking about the possibilities of down draughts. We did keep a respectful distance though. Trouble is that it was 45 years ago and memories fade.
I think we did fly over the Col although I do not have a clear recollection of the event. I remember calling the range to Mt. Everest using the E290 radar and thinking afterwards that we had strayed in to Chinese airspace so we must have circled the mountain. It was a very calm day but I do not remember any of us talking about the possibilities of down draughts. We did keep a respectful distance though. Trouble is that it was 45 years ago and memories fade.
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Dean ...
If I recall some of AA62's earlier 'exploits' ... He may have been delivering mortar and a cistern pan for possible Royal patronage ...
If I recall some of AA62's earlier 'exploits' ... He may have been delivering mortar and a cistern pan for possible Royal patronage ...
Vasco
As soon as I saw Dean's photograph showing your dad I meant to make a comment, but our protracted house build is coming to a climax, yippee, and it slipped my mind.
What a great bloke Len Davies was! He was Nav Ldr when I arrived on 48 late '67 and became Wing Nav a few weeks later - a kinder and more pleasant man it would be hard to beat.
After Changi I only met him on a few occasions, the last being a 48 reunion at Lyneham in the mid-80s and I recall him saying that his son had also become a Herc' nav and was due to be route checked by Mike Eacopo on the following day. A year or two later Mike was a Flt Cdr on my son's Cranwell course, along with another ex-Herc guy, a driver I think, whose name has escaped me. My son went to "the dark side' and became a FJ single seat man.
Under coincidences, while holding for his pilot course he did a Herc' flight from Lyneham to Akrotiri and met his "Uncle Arthur C******' in Flt Planning.
Dean
Good to see you too and I hope to see you again at next year's centenary bash. A few new faces have put their names forward including another ex 4 Course nav, Dai Jones.
I did that Kathmandu trip almost 2 years to the day ahead of yours and took some slides too; I hope to locate those when our gear comes out of store on Thursday. I got back to Changi to find I had become a father, to the future FJ pilot, and Anne my poor 19 yr old wife had to go through the whole thing without me. I don't suppose fathers to-be would have been allowed at the birth back in '69, I even got bollocked by a stroppy young nurse for picking my son up. Perhaps being post-route sweaty horrified her!
AA62
I hardly took any photos in my short RAF career but will have a search soon - then I'll have to ask Coffman for help again!
PS
Why was 203 showing Air Support command and not RAF Far East as it had initially - as had all of the first batch, 198-209 inclusive?
What a great bloke Len Davies was! He was Nav Ldr when I arrived on 48 late '67 and became Wing Nav a few weeks later - a kinder and more pleasant man it would be hard to beat.
After Changi I only met him on a few occasions, the last being a 48 reunion at Lyneham in the mid-80s and I recall him saying that his son had also become a Herc' nav and was due to be route checked by Mike Eacopo on the following day. A year or two later Mike was a Flt Cdr on my son's Cranwell course, along with another ex-Herc guy, a driver I think, whose name has escaped me. My son went to "the dark side' and became a FJ single seat man.
Under coincidences, while holding for his pilot course he did a Herc' flight from Lyneham to Akrotiri and met his "Uncle Arthur C******' in Flt Planning.
Dean
Good to see you too and I hope to see you again at next year's centenary bash. A few new faces have put their names forward including another ex 4 Course nav, Dai Jones.
I did that Kathmandu trip almost 2 years to the day ahead of yours and took some slides too; I hope to locate those when our gear comes out of store on Thursday. I got back to Changi to find I had become a father, to the future FJ pilot, and Anne my poor 19 yr old wife had to go through the whole thing without me. I don't suppose fathers to-be would have been allowed at the birth back in '69, I even got bollocked by a stroppy young nurse for picking my son up. Perhaps being post-route sweaty horrified her!
AA62
I hardly took any photos in my short RAF career but will have a search soon - then I'll have to ask Coffman for help again!
PS
Why was 203 showing Air Support command and not RAF Far East as it had initially - as had all of the first batch, 198-209 inclusive?
Last edited by Brian 48nav; 10th Nov 2015 at 16:58. Reason: Addition
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Cross threading
Thanks for the pointer AA62, I found the pics at post #224 I think. I am pleased cross treading is allowed on here.
Not sure if those same straps weren't still in the war stores at Cerney when we undertook a huge disposal exercise. I love the wicker baskets. I first came across them known as Harry Packes named after an Army Guy called Packe. VX274 may know more. There are good descriptions in Dennis Williams book Stirlings in Airborne Forces.
I think I have previously recounted how I was almost sacked for comments regarding the LGBT fraternity and proposals to dispose of the pink cotton 28fts and retain the blue rayon ones. I certainly had an interview without coffee! My parting gift to my 2* at ABW was a framed photo of a pink one and blue one on a double drop at Keevil in 2010
Now why did you folks not adopt SEAC packs in the NEAF.
So what has this got to do with the K? - Most of the kit left over from Arnhem was still is use on the K and probably remains on the J and A400.
As for Agfa vs Kodak. My dad was an Agfa man when we were in Nairobi and KL. He still gets the slides out to show the great grandchildren pictures of their Grandad and Gt Uncle in KD shorts no top. I must dig out the slides of the inverted Twin Pin in the bondu.
Not sure if those same straps weren't still in the war stores at Cerney when we undertook a huge disposal exercise. I love the wicker baskets. I first came across them known as Harry Packes named after an Army Guy called Packe. VX274 may know more. There are good descriptions in Dennis Williams book Stirlings in Airborne Forces.
I think I have previously recounted how I was almost sacked for comments regarding the LGBT fraternity and proposals to dispose of the pink cotton 28fts and retain the blue rayon ones. I certainly had an interview without coffee! My parting gift to my 2* at ABW was a framed photo of a pink one and blue one on a double drop at Keevil in 2010
Now why did you folks not adopt SEAC packs in the NEAF.
So what has this got to do with the K? - Most of the kit left over from Arnhem was still is use on the K and probably remains on the J and A400.
As for Agfa vs Kodak. My dad was an Agfa man when we were in Nairobi and KL. He still gets the slides out to show the great grandchildren pictures of their Grandad and Gt Uncle in KD shorts no top. I must dig out the slides of the inverted Twin Pin in the bondu.
Dean,
wonderful pics on post #3873. Yes I was on that trip and the captain was Dave P. As Coff says on one of the Funafuti trips we took all the elements to build a flushing loo. This was for HRH Prince Charles to use during his visit. Oh happy days. I think by 1970 frames were being replaced by ones from the UK and we would use them as they arrived and they would be repainted later with 'Far East Air Force' replacing 'Air Suport Command'.
wonderful pics on post #3873. Yes I was on that trip and the captain was Dave P. As Coff says on one of the Funafuti trips we took all the elements to build a flushing loo. This was for HRH Prince Charles to use during his visit. Oh happy days. I think by 1970 frames were being replaced by ones from the UK and we would use them as they arrived and they would be repainted later with 'Far East Air Force' replacing 'Air Suport Command'.