Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Spain
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not C130, (sorry) but mention of the JACIG trips brings back memories. I ended up on Open Skies at Boscombe Down so had to endure six years of travel to the old Iron Curtain countries. So many stories and incidents that, like Dougie´s anecdotes, could probably fill a book, but as they are not "K" related will only mention one.
We were in Kiev and had a 20 minute lumpy bumpy taxi, avoiding pot holes, to take off for a demo flight over the airfield; we had senior Ukrainian Air Force officers on board. Air traffic would not clear us for take-off as they said they had priority traffic using the airspace. We told them that WE were the priority traffic, but they were having none of it.
So, we did the lumpy bumpy 20 minute return taxi by which time the Ukrainian colonel was apoplectic and stormed off the aircraft up to the tower ready to put a controller in front of the firing squad.
By the time we were cleared to continue we needed a refuel and the bowser driver could not be found.
We were in Kiev and had a 20 minute lumpy bumpy taxi, avoiding pot holes, to take off for a demo flight over the airfield; we had senior Ukrainian Air Force officers on board. Air traffic would not clear us for take-off as they said they had priority traffic using the airspace. We told them that WE were the priority traffic, but they were having none of it.
So, we did the lumpy bumpy 20 minute return taxi by which time the Ukrainian colonel was apoplectic and stormed off the aircraft up to the tower ready to put a controller in front of the firing squad.
By the time we were cleared to continue we needed a refuel and the bowser driver could not be found.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Erewhon
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear, we'll be running into Brixmiss stories and meaconing of the Brekendorf TACAN in the Berlin Corridors (all fascinating stuff) next.
I now come here for my nostalgia fix, but it isn't what it used to be!
I now come here for my nostalgia fix, but it isn't what it used to be!
Last edited by Brian W May; 25th Apr 2015 at 16:09. Reason: Spelling of Brekendorf
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Answers to bits and bobs
Just found thread and spent last night reading through. Although not Changi, before my time, may be able to answer some bits.
AOB - You need to pull 2g at 60AOB to maintain level. Lockheed pub said 60AOB was imposed to limit g required to below ac g limit. 45AOB with flaps down was for some other structural limit but memory gone on that one.
ULLA - dropped and taught(day drop then dummy passes at night to get used to flying at 10 feet before live drop) on lots of drops. 3ULLA had gone so only 2ULLA. Easy to drop and quite accurate as to stop point of the load. Trim change wasn't too bad as although stick forward at 10 feet as the load moved, in the dark, as load went ac ballooned upwards and you weren't pushing into the ground. Difficult not to hover over or follow through on the controls if teaching but that would have been poor instructing. My brief to handling pilot was that if the wheels touched just squeeze away from the ground rather than pull as I didn't want to increase deck angle if load went.
Only had one nasty. Drogue deployed on run-in and ALM reported it had deployed. Unfortunately on release the strop had wrapped around the bag preventing chute deployment and in the dark the ALM could see that strop was taut and assumed chute had deployed. Load obviously didn't goat green-on. Flying at 10 feet, in the dark, with a live load, towards KVL hangar, with my glider in it, was a bit fraught until ALM made things safe.
It was found that some of the strops used during an ULLA drop weren't to correct spec and we had been lucky by using training weights but a op weight drop could have gone very badly wrong. We didn't need the capability and the Army were asked to pay for new design, development and testing of new strops. They declined. End of ULLA.
HSP. Probably dropped the last one. As newbie on HOEU was given the job of trialling a new HSP. Went to BZN to see the beast. Platform framework was rectangular with no chamfer and I wasn't convinced that it wouldn't hit the raised door if it tilted at all on final phase of extraction. Platform was brought to LYE and after loading and unloading lots of times and with much head scratching and muttering it was scrapped!!!!! Couldn't believe they had gone this far without aircrew input.
Old HSP was built from bits at BZN and plan was to do three trial drops, two under ballast and then a live load. Previous drop some years before hadn't gone well when the load moved but took a long time, and subsequent large and prolonged trim change, before going. I believe this was put down to the final restraint strop, designed to snap, being wet and therefore stretching quite a bit before snapping. Handling notes read by myself and Nav. Co was to handle throttles and advance, without being told, if the IAS dropped off rapidly. Handling pilot was to have both hands on the stick and had to achieve full forward stick within 1.5 seconds IN AN ATTEMPT TO CONTROL THE PITCH ATTITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The two ballast drops were cancelled for various reasons. The live drop was scheduled to fit in with a VIP drop demo and although poor trial procedure we were told to go ahead with the live drop! As you might guess, not all went well. Load moving and trim change was interesting but easily managed. Load went out then load transfer failed. Live load, HSP plus Scimitar tank came down vertically gun first. Not helped by a couple of chutes failing, probably through airsteal. Impact was quite impressive according to ground party. Platform and tank then fell onto its back, upside down. Very bent gun and tank. End of HSP. (Colonel who owned the tank wasn't happy, even less happy when AD Staffie was heard to say, "oh well, that's trials work for you". I have some pics but they are on an external HD that isn't playing at the moment.
AOB - You need to pull 2g at 60AOB to maintain level. Lockheed pub said 60AOB was imposed to limit g required to below ac g limit. 45AOB with flaps down was for some other structural limit but memory gone on that one.
ULLA - dropped and taught(day drop then dummy passes at night to get used to flying at 10 feet before live drop) on lots of drops. 3ULLA had gone so only 2ULLA. Easy to drop and quite accurate as to stop point of the load. Trim change wasn't too bad as although stick forward at 10 feet as the load moved, in the dark, as load went ac ballooned upwards and you weren't pushing into the ground. Difficult not to hover over or follow through on the controls if teaching but that would have been poor instructing. My brief to handling pilot was that if the wheels touched just squeeze away from the ground rather than pull as I didn't want to increase deck angle if load went.
Only had one nasty. Drogue deployed on run-in and ALM reported it had deployed. Unfortunately on release the strop had wrapped around the bag preventing chute deployment and in the dark the ALM could see that strop was taut and assumed chute had deployed. Load obviously didn't goat green-on. Flying at 10 feet, in the dark, with a live load, towards KVL hangar, with my glider in it, was a bit fraught until ALM made things safe.
It was found that some of the strops used during an ULLA drop weren't to correct spec and we had been lucky by using training weights but a op weight drop could have gone very badly wrong. We didn't need the capability and the Army were asked to pay for new design, development and testing of new strops. They declined. End of ULLA.
HSP. Probably dropped the last one. As newbie on HOEU was given the job of trialling a new HSP. Went to BZN to see the beast. Platform framework was rectangular with no chamfer and I wasn't convinced that it wouldn't hit the raised door if it tilted at all on final phase of extraction. Platform was brought to LYE and after loading and unloading lots of times and with much head scratching and muttering it was scrapped!!!!! Couldn't believe they had gone this far without aircrew input.
Old HSP was built from bits at BZN and plan was to do three trial drops, two under ballast and then a live load. Previous drop some years before hadn't gone well when the load moved but took a long time, and subsequent large and prolonged trim change, before going. I believe this was put down to the final restraint strop, designed to snap, being wet and therefore stretching quite a bit before snapping. Handling notes read by myself and Nav. Co was to handle throttles and advance, without being told, if the IAS dropped off rapidly. Handling pilot was to have both hands on the stick and had to achieve full forward stick within 1.5 seconds IN AN ATTEMPT TO CONTROL THE PITCH ATTITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The two ballast drops were cancelled for various reasons. The live drop was scheduled to fit in with a VIP drop demo and although poor trial procedure we were told to go ahead with the live drop! As you might guess, not all went well. Load moving and trim change was interesting but easily managed. Load went out then load transfer failed. Live load, HSP plus Scimitar tank came down vertically gun first. Not helped by a couple of chutes failing, probably through airsteal. Impact was quite impressive according to ground party. Platform and tank then fell onto its back, upside down. Very bent gun and tank. End of HSP. (Colonel who owned the tank wasn't happy, even less happy when AD Staffie was heard to say, "oh well, that's trials work for you". I have some pics but they are on an external HD that isn't playing at the moment.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: M4 Corridor
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
North Front
The Pongos took over the mess eventually (as they do) and banned us from drinking in the bar in flying suits. We protested that it was "working dress" like the green outfits and big boots that they were wearing. A large jock captain told us "those were the riules".
Well we had been dropping some EOD guys in the harbour and informed them that we couldn't have a post flight beer with them after the night drop.
"Be there" they said.
Well we landed on (it being only 5 mins flying and 10 mins legging it to the bar)
The usual huffy welcome was apparent. Then from the beach down from the bar patio came these ominous plopping sounds. The EOD team emerged from the waves in full diving kit and flippered their way to the bar. Raising his face mask up to his forehead the lead diver said " I'm Major ****, in working dress! I wish to buy the crew a drink!
No complaints
Well we had been dropping some EOD guys in the harbour and informed them that we couldn't have a post flight beer with them after the night drop.
"Be there" they said.
Well we landed on (it being only 5 mins flying and 10 mins legging it to the bar)
The usual huffy welcome was apparent. Then from the beach down from the bar patio came these ominous plopping sounds. The EOD team emerged from the waves in full diving kit and flippered their way to the bar. Raising his face mask up to his forehead the lead diver said " I'm Major ****, in working dress! I wish to buy the crew a drink!
No complaints
Happy anniversary gents , thanks for educating and entertaining posts .
Chopper and prev. Sad to hear of Snoopy's demise . Hope history doesn't repeat itself .... As in after the Rolls Royce Rb211 was certified ; the VC10 testbed was scrapped .. no one looked ahead and foresaw the need of a flying testbed for future generations of Rolls Royce engines.... expensive hiring of US equipment has been necessary ever since .
Now trust a civi to point out the obvious .... Chopper did really well in his posing of 3 types of ''Herc'
A tribute from Marshalls ? or bought and paid for by decades of Herc work ?
Rather neat all the same .
rgds condor [ Marshalls trained by 'K' test pilots and when not testing.....Cessna 150 instructors]
Chopper and prev. Sad to hear of Snoopy's demise . Hope history doesn't repeat itself .... As in after the Rolls Royce Rb211 was certified ; the VC10 testbed was scrapped .. no one looked ahead and foresaw the need of a flying testbed for future generations of Rolls Royce engines.... expensive hiring of US equipment has been necessary ever since .
Now trust a civi to point out the obvious .... Chopper did really well in his posing of 3 types of ''Herc'
A tribute from Marshalls ? or bought and paid for by decades of Herc work ?
Rather neat all the same .
rgds condor [ Marshalls trained by 'K' test pilots and when not testing.....Cessna 150 instructors]
Dougie M,
Did you ever do a trip when "beverages" we're not available? I can't remember who was responsible, but well remember accompanying you on a stumble through the jungle to qualify for a few beers with the Hash House Harriers, on our way to Oz. Looking at November4 pics of Albert at Gib, I thought he had photographs of the aircraft we took to Oz, but it's 220 and my records suggest we conducted our visit in 210, including the Sydney diversion. Keep posting your memories Sir, a pleasure to read.
Smudge
Did you ever do a trip when "beverages" we're not available? I can't remember who was responsible, but well remember accompanying you on a stumble through the jungle to qualify for a few beers with the Hash House Harriers, on our way to Oz. Looking at November4 pics of Albert at Gib, I thought he had photographs of the aircraft we took to Oz, but it's 220 and my records suggest we conducted our visit in 210, including the Sydney diversion. Keep posting your memories Sir, a pleasure to read.
Smudge
Dougie,
great story to go alongside my tale of being allowed to open the Army SNCO's bar in Nicosia when I was a MACR.
Op Sedburgh was the farcial Beira oil patrol when the Shacks operated out of Majunga and we supported them. Mainly with Griffon engines ! Someone else here must have been to Majunga.
great story to go alongside my tale of being allowed to open the Army SNCO's bar in Nicosia when I was a MACR.
Op Sedburgh was the farcial Beira oil patrol when the Shacks operated out of Majunga and we supported them. Mainly with Griffon engines ! Someone else here must have been to Majunga.
Flight Sgt Terry Pitt
I have just been informed of the passing yesterday of Terry Pitt, after a fight against cancer. One of Eng Ops more colourful Flight Sergeants he was well known to many of the aircrew for his art productions and cartoons. Some of you may have known or worked with him, so I thought it appropriate to note his passing on this thread.
RIP Tel.
Smudge
RIP Tel.
Smudge
R4H,
welcome ! Thank you for the very interesting airdrop stories. I am sure dragartist can add something to them from his perspective. Would really like to see your pics if they can be rescued. When I did the HEART job one of the Boscombe Down chapa claimed that the Herc had only ever been cleared for double ULA, not triple. I produced some pics at the next meeting to prove we did indeed do triple ULLA.
In respect of aircrew invovlement when the HEART went to Abbey Wood to ask about the 'J' we were told that the sole RAF presence at Lockheeds was a pilot and an engineering officer. This for an a/c for which we were to be the launch customer ! When I asked why no loadmaster involvement the reply was cost !
welcome ! Thank you for the very interesting airdrop stories. I am sure dragartist can add something to them from his perspective. Would really like to see your pics if they can be rescued. When I did the HEART job one of the Boscombe Down chapa claimed that the Herc had only ever been cleared for double ULA, not triple. I produced some pics at the next meeting to prove we did indeed do triple ULLA.
In respect of aircrew invovlement when the HEART went to Abbey Wood to ask about the 'J' we were told that the sole RAF presence at Lockheeds was a pilot and an engineering officer. This for an a/c for which we were to be the launch customer ! When I asked why no loadmaster involvement the reply was cost !
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: M4 Corridor
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Majunga
The trips to Madagascar were like stepping back into French colonial history. The overnight stops in the Hotel de France started by throwing an insect spray bomb into the room then going to Madame Givaux's for the evening. After many Trois Chevaux beers you could face the megadeath in your room. The forest of weakly waving antennae and the crunchy floor would have deterred lesser men. More spraying in the mossie net never got the last one and the sheets looked like red polka dots in the morning
Happy Days
Happy Days
Doug,
your description has rekindled those memories perfectly. I recall going to our room to find that it was already occupied by ladies plying their trade !
I was always glad to get airborne and away from the mossies and bedbugs.
But what a farce the whole OP was by whatever name. Rhodesia was getting the fuel overland all the time and the UK government knew it.
your description has rekindled those memories perfectly. I recall going to our room to find that it was already occupied by ladies plying their trade !
I was always glad to get airborne and away from the mossies and bedbugs.
But what a farce the whole OP was by whatever name. Rhodesia was getting the fuel overland all the time and the UK government knew it.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: M4 Corridor
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Local interest
Madame Givaux also offered other services which could be bartered for with cigarettes, chocolate or duty free. Rumour has it that the only "germs" contracted in Majunga were gracefully donated to a shack mate by the European French daughter of the Mayor.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: wiltshire
Age: 65
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dougie's tale of dropping the chaps in Gib brings to mind a similar exercise based at RAF Butlins. Having dropped the troops at Ladies Mile for the 3rd time the crew were relaxing at the open ramp waiting for the next lift. The local ice cream van appeared at the offices opposite us, cue ice cream van being summoned to Alberts ramp so the Loadie could supply the crews chilled rations. Troops appear to find van still there, "slight delay while we finish our 99s" quoted the Nav. Ring any bells Dougie?
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK East Anglia
Age: 66
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Welcome on board R4H.
I think we did HSP a good few months back. Coff may have posted the picture of what I thought may have been the last. It was not the tent peg you speak of.
It was I who finally withdrew the clearance for HSP in around 2001/2. I had been around the project since 1996 when JATE designed the new aluminium tube side frames. that was a disaster with no wash away (that what we called it the US referred to tip Off) the frame would have twatted the door with end Ex for those on board. A drop went ahead with the steel girder load protection frame around the Diesel CVRT. (I think we did two that year, one on Purple Star and the other in UK as the Diesel CVRT trial)
After a break from AD I returned in 1999. Parky (who died in Kenya at the hand of villains a few years back) was keen to get HSP with troops following. TROC on MSP prohibited this. It was at a time when nothing was free and there was no cash. AML, the DA at Newton Abbott wanted a small fortune for modifying the JATE Side frames (JATE did not have DAOS at the time) so we went for the girders again. I insisted on checking the envelope calculations and found that we needed to take 4" off the aft legs. It was this that broke the camels back and I withdrew the clearance. No funding was made available for the rectification. You were a good deal lucky to get away with what you say was the final drop. I am really pleased I made the right decision and you and others are here to contribute to this forum.
The role equipment had been cobbled together from Boscombe Down. I had arguments over who owned the role equipment. (DERA/Q2 wished me to pay them for doing a trial of something that had been in service). I think we also found an updated TRAM and pantograph mechanism in the shed at Boscombe for the platform. This had been the through the AML Mod process as far as P&T but no cover mod in the APs I could not find the signed up MPF or certification. Certainly located the Skydel centreline floor beam. I had taken advice on lifing on some of the SWRs. My Gp Capt was happy to take a risk having seen them greased up by the Tiffs at 47 who had found a set in the hangar at Cerney that were unused but out of life. The APs were not very good either. Crap in fact!
I don't think what you say about lack of aircrew involvement was true. We had JATE Flying section at the time and after that the HOEU. The guys at Boscombe (all persuasions) had a hand in most things. Humph (Engineer) used to come to my LTCs and other meetings. VX275 is pretty expert in these things. I know he had his nose put out of joint by the Q2 management along with a good number of the Ex AD guys.
It all comes down to money and we tried to do our best on a shoe string. The cross beams from the old side frames were in use until fairly recently for rolling platforms to determine CoG. I do hope the last HSP got on display at the Airborne Museum Duxford. I hope they preserved an MSP as well. I banged out a few years back.
I think I have seen the triple ULLA photo AA62 talks of. ULLA appeared very prone to maldrop!
I think we did HSP a good few months back. Coff may have posted the picture of what I thought may have been the last. It was not the tent peg you speak of.
It was I who finally withdrew the clearance for HSP in around 2001/2. I had been around the project since 1996 when JATE designed the new aluminium tube side frames. that was a disaster with no wash away (that what we called it the US referred to tip Off) the frame would have twatted the door with end Ex for those on board. A drop went ahead with the steel girder load protection frame around the Diesel CVRT. (I think we did two that year, one on Purple Star and the other in UK as the Diesel CVRT trial)
After a break from AD I returned in 1999. Parky (who died in Kenya at the hand of villains a few years back) was keen to get HSP with troops following. TROC on MSP prohibited this. It was at a time when nothing was free and there was no cash. AML, the DA at Newton Abbott wanted a small fortune for modifying the JATE Side frames (JATE did not have DAOS at the time) so we went for the girders again. I insisted on checking the envelope calculations and found that we needed to take 4" off the aft legs. It was this that broke the camels back and I withdrew the clearance. No funding was made available for the rectification. You were a good deal lucky to get away with what you say was the final drop. I am really pleased I made the right decision and you and others are here to contribute to this forum.
The role equipment had been cobbled together from Boscombe Down. I had arguments over who owned the role equipment. (DERA/Q2 wished me to pay them for doing a trial of something that had been in service). I think we also found an updated TRAM and pantograph mechanism in the shed at Boscombe for the platform. This had been the through the AML Mod process as far as P&T but no cover mod in the APs I could not find the signed up MPF or certification. Certainly located the Skydel centreline floor beam. I had taken advice on lifing on some of the SWRs. My Gp Capt was happy to take a risk having seen them greased up by the Tiffs at 47 who had found a set in the hangar at Cerney that were unused but out of life. The APs were not very good either. Crap in fact!
I don't think what you say about lack of aircrew involvement was true. We had JATE Flying section at the time and after that the HOEU. The guys at Boscombe (all persuasions) had a hand in most things. Humph (Engineer) used to come to my LTCs and other meetings. VX275 is pretty expert in these things. I know he had his nose put out of joint by the Q2 management along with a good number of the Ex AD guys.
It all comes down to money and we tried to do our best on a shoe string. The cross beams from the old side frames were in use until fairly recently for rolling platforms to determine CoG. I do hope the last HSP got on display at the Airborne Museum Duxford. I hope they preserved an MSP as well. I banged out a few years back.
I think I have seen the triple ULLA photo AA62 talks of. ULLA appeared very prone to maldrop!