Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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The Belgians on 24 were a great bunch too, the Captains standard line to any woman was " Allo, my name is Didier, what about sex?" Rarely worked for some reason. The ALM was famous for his comment regarding feeding the passengers. He told the Captain he had squadge and bisquits for the paps!
Dougie,
I have referred in an earlier post to the HSP and mine laying 'bright ideas' during Corporate. I was at the EU and part of our remit was to provide specialist advice to the group staffs as and when required. As retaking the Falkands was 'mission impossible' rhere were no real contingency plans. So when Maggie decided to do it all manner of wierd and wonderful ideas were put forward by our VSO and political betters. These were passed down the chain to the HQ newly discovered MRCA (AKA the 'K').
Because they came from 'on high' they could not be dismissed as lunatic as most were. They all had to be staffed and a report sent back up the chain.
So we were kept busy clerking providing group with the specilist advice mentioned above.
I have referred in an earlier post to the HSP and mine laying 'bright ideas' during Corporate. I was at the EU and part of our remit was to provide specialist advice to the group staffs as and when required. As retaking the Falkands was 'mission impossible' rhere were no real contingency plans. So when Maggie decided to do it all manner of wierd and wonderful ideas were put forward by our VSO and political betters. These were passed down the chain to the HQ newly discovered MRCA (AKA the 'K').
Because they came from 'on high' they could not be dismissed as lunatic as most were. They all had to be staffed and a report sent back up the chain.
So we were kept busy clerking providing group with the specilist advice mentioned above.
AirDrop for the uninitiated
It is not just the convincing outsiders of the lunacy of their ideas. It can be equally difficult convincing our lords and masters of potential viability.
When I started in MoD we worked for the Director of Air Defence - naturally he was an Air Defender with no trucking background or previous knowledge. One of my roles was to write the Service Deviations (SD) for the Herc - we had just short of 100 which had to be re-staffed every 6 months. However....
You may recall that during the Bosnia deployments one of the Regiments was deployed forward in Pristina (I think) and expected to be cut off by the Nasties. We needed to re supply them by airdrop but the aircraft had to remain above the missiles ie above 17,000 ft. 2 ideas seemed feasible using either a slotted parachute (one with every other gore removed) or by tie-ing the parachute so that it never really opened. Then with wind measurements from a ground party it was reckoned the load ( albeit travelling fairly fast, about 75 ft/sec if memory serves) could with reasonable certainty be put into a football pitch. But we needed JATE (as it then was) to do some trials and these needed a SD.
The DZ was the Boscombe Calibrated Range on Salisbury Plain aka the Larkhill Artillery Impact Area. I did a lot of research and produced what I thought of as a masterpiece, complete with the need, pictures of the loads and parachutes, maps of the DZ etc and explanations of where it actually was we were going to drop. In it went to the D and after a while out it came again unsigned but with a few queries. After several more attempts, I gave up trying to convince him remotely and asked to see him.
In I went, SD paperwork in hand. After some discussion we came to his problem - how did he know that if he granted the SD there would not be any unwary civilians standing on the DZ when dropping took place.
I thought for a moment "Well, Boss, it's like this. 30 minutes before we arrive the Artillery will be lobbing 155mm shells into the area. 30 minutes after we depart they will begin lobbing shells again." "Ah" he said and signed without another thought.
When I started in MoD we worked for the Director of Air Defence - naturally he was an Air Defender with no trucking background or previous knowledge. One of my roles was to write the Service Deviations (SD) for the Herc - we had just short of 100 which had to be re-staffed every 6 months. However....
You may recall that during the Bosnia deployments one of the Regiments was deployed forward in Pristina (I think) and expected to be cut off by the Nasties. We needed to re supply them by airdrop but the aircraft had to remain above the missiles ie above 17,000 ft. 2 ideas seemed feasible using either a slotted parachute (one with every other gore removed) or by tie-ing the parachute so that it never really opened. Then with wind measurements from a ground party it was reckoned the load ( albeit travelling fairly fast, about 75 ft/sec if memory serves) could with reasonable certainty be put into a football pitch. But we needed JATE (as it then was) to do some trials and these needed a SD.
The DZ was the Boscombe Calibrated Range on Salisbury Plain aka the Larkhill Artillery Impact Area. I did a lot of research and produced what I thought of as a masterpiece, complete with the need, pictures of the loads and parachutes, maps of the DZ etc and explanations of where it actually was we were going to drop. In it went to the D and after a while out it came again unsigned but with a few queries. After several more attempts, I gave up trying to convince him remotely and asked to see him.
In I went, SD paperwork in hand. After some discussion we came to his problem - how did he know that if he granted the SD there would not be any unwary civilians standing on the DZ when dropping took place.
I thought for a moment "Well, Boss, it's like this. 30 minutes before we arrive the Artillery will be lobbing 155mm shells into the area. 30 minutes after we depart they will begin lobbing shells again." "Ah" he said and signed without another thought.
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HAADS
The high altitude 1 ton ME's were an interesting load. I was standing in at JATE when the task came to resupply the Gorazde pocket by air. The better option might have probably been a low level drop at night. Anyway, there we were at 17000ft with our poor despatchers and loadie bimbling around on full oxygen as the stick of ring - slot 1 Ton manually ejected loads were prepared. As aforementioned there was a check fire on Larkhill as the load was despatched and disappeared rapidly as these drogue chutes did little to slow them down.
The first hit the DZ at Black Ball Firs in the "football pitch" area but the rest expanded along the line of the DZ quite a lot.
After reconsidering the fact that the Serbs would have got most of the load the plan for "Operation Certain Death" was shelved.
The first hit the DZ at Black Ball Firs in the "football pitch" area but the rest expanded along the line of the DZ quite a lot.
After reconsidering the fact that the Serbs would have got most of the load the plan for "Operation Certain Death" was shelved.
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X and Dougie,
I too was associated with the HAADS but not responsible for the initial introduction. The first cutes you tested in readiness for your Gorazde Op were imported from Irvin California and modified for the British way of doing things. Why we could not have just adopted the US methods I never did fully understand. The initial SD was maintained (yes reviewed every 6 months) for many years. The SD approved the parachute mods ( A loop of 1500 cord at the apex to attach the static line so it broke away at the anchor cable end) It also authorised the JATE report as the SOPs. It took years to get this into the C book and suppress the SD. We bought 1000 chutes to this developed standard and designated them SC21. RAB and rationalisation caused disposal of 800. Last seen in a barn not far from Kemble. When we needed chutes for Afg we tried to buy them back. The asking price was double what we paid new. We managed to keep 200 for training in support of HUMAID but not hold any for HUMAID if that makes sense. HUMAID was not a capability funded by this Force for Good who employed us. These 200 chutes were consumed doing trials on the C130J. No one had the balls to read anything across from K to J. I don't believe any were deployed in anger. So much for interoperability.
I too was associated with the HAADS but not responsible for the initial introduction. The first cutes you tested in readiness for your Gorazde Op were imported from Irvin California and modified for the British way of doing things. Why we could not have just adopted the US methods I never did fully understand. The initial SD was maintained (yes reviewed every 6 months) for many years. The SD approved the parachute mods ( A loop of 1500 cord at the apex to attach the static line so it broke away at the anchor cable end) It also authorised the JATE report as the SOPs. It took years to get this into the C book and suppress the SD. We bought 1000 chutes to this developed standard and designated them SC21. RAB and rationalisation caused disposal of 800. Last seen in a barn not far from Kemble. When we needed chutes for Afg we tried to buy them back. The asking price was double what we paid new. We managed to keep 200 for training in support of HUMAID but not hold any for HUMAID if that makes sense. HUMAID was not a capability funded by this Force for Good who employed us. These 200 chutes were consumed doing trials on the C130J. No one had the balls to read anything across from K to J. I don't believe any were deployed in anger. So much for interoperability.
Last edited by dragartist; 5th Feb 2015 at 21:43. Reason: chronology J to K
Xercules,
your cunning plan was flawed ! You should have preceded the resupply drop by an insertion of a Health and Safety Team to carry out a full risk assessment to any civilians in the vicinity (servicemen do not count). Once the report had been received and staffed the need for the drop may well have evaporated. However if the drop then went ahead then it must be preceded at least 24 hours in advance by a leaflet drop (in 27 languages) warning those within 100 NM including any hostiles.
After the drop another leaflet sortie needs to be flown advising all and sundry that they are entitled to sue the UK for a wide variety of alleged injuries and misdemenours. Naturally contact details for the increasing horde of UK 'ambulance chasers' would be included.
Then those who sue would need flying back to the UK on specially charterd civil a/c as to use a Hercules would merely add insult to their 'injuries'.
Once here of course they would be accommodated in posh London hotels and given benefits and cosmetic surgery on the NHS.
Actually your real mistake was in not presenting the airdrop as relieving the
system of the need to store the kit being dropped thus saving MOD money.
Any career minded SO woulds have signed without the slightest demur.
Cynical? Moi ?
your cunning plan was flawed ! You should have preceded the resupply drop by an insertion of a Health and Safety Team to carry out a full risk assessment to any civilians in the vicinity (servicemen do not count). Once the report had been received and staffed the need for the drop may well have evaporated. However if the drop then went ahead then it must be preceded at least 24 hours in advance by a leaflet drop (in 27 languages) warning those within 100 NM including any hostiles.
After the drop another leaflet sortie needs to be flown advising all and sundry that they are entitled to sue the UK for a wide variety of alleged injuries and misdemenours. Naturally contact details for the increasing horde of UK 'ambulance chasers' would be included.
Then those who sue would need flying back to the UK on specially charterd civil a/c as to use a Hercules would merely add insult to their 'injuries'.
Once here of course they would be accommodated in posh London hotels and given benefits and cosmetic surgery on the NHS.
Actually your real mistake was in not presenting the airdrop as relieving the
system of the need to store the kit being dropped thus saving MOD money.
Any career minded SO woulds have signed without the slightest demur.
Cynical? Moi ?
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Well I've just finished wading through all 123 pages; No mean feat with our internet connection here in Myanmar! What a brilliant thread
Anyway, I first came into contact with the Herk on ATC summer camp at Lyneham in '79... All my mates had the 'pleasure' of 3hr circuits and Khe San approaches with many bags being filled I however got lucky and only had fun transits.
According to my 3822, I had the following trips;
21.8.79 XV186 Transit to Cambridge(Marshalls) & return 1:45
23.8.79 XV223 Transit to Coningsby & Return 3:15 (The more observant amongst you will note the date is the 25th anniversary of the first flight of the C-130
)
I think 223 went on to be the first 'stretched' version?
On one of these flights I remember standing harnessed up with the ramp down as Snoopy flew past below us- quite a sight!
And summer camp again in '81;
19.8.81 XV213 Circuits 1:05
When I moved up to the Ross on Wye area at the end of the 80's we lived it would appear, on the low level route to Wales, with much aerial activity including Herks, Chinooks(presumably in support of the boys up the road in Herryford & Pontrilas) at all hours of the day and night, VERY low plus the usual RAF/USAF culprits including the lovely A10
I also remember seeing a formation of 15+ over the Severn estuary in the early 90s?? Great sight and noise!
Another memory was having a flypast whilst flying our balloon near Ross with the ramp down and the Loadie waving as they went by
Anyway, keep the pics and stories coming, it's all great stuff!
I'll try and post some pics later of a couple of the fleet in service with a foreign air force in more modern times...Off for a barbecue on the banks of the Irrawaddy first though
Anyway, I first came into contact with the Herk on ATC summer camp at Lyneham in '79... All my mates had the 'pleasure' of 3hr circuits and Khe San approaches with many bags being filled
I however got lucky and only had fun transits.According to my 3822, I had the following trips;
21.8.79 XV186 Transit to Cambridge(Marshalls) & return 1:45
23.8.79 XV223 Transit to Coningsby & Return 3:15 (The more observant amongst you will note the date is the 25th anniversary of the first flight of the C-130
)I think 223 went on to be the first 'stretched' version?
On one of these flights I remember standing harnessed up with the ramp down as Snoopy flew past below us- quite a sight!
And summer camp again in '81;
19.8.81 XV213 Circuits 1:05
When I moved up to the Ross on Wye area at the end of the 80's we lived it would appear, on the low level route to Wales, with much aerial activity including Herks, Chinooks(presumably in support of the boys up the road in Herryford & Pontrilas) at all hours of the day and night, VERY low
plus the usual RAF/USAF culprits including the lovely A10 I also remember seeing a formation of 15+ over the Severn estuary in the early 90s?? Great sight and noise!
Another memory was having a flypast whilst flying our balloon near Ross with the ramp down and the Loadie waving as they went by
Anyway, keep the pics and stories coming, it's all great stuff!
I'll try and post some pics later of a couple of the fleet in service with a foreign air force in more modern times...Off for a barbecue on the banks of the Irrawaddy first though
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This is 8T-CA.....AKA XV181, currently in service with the Austrian AF.
These pics were taken at Linz in 2013/4
These pics were taken at Linz in 2013/4
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CA again, this time at Zeltweg at the airshow, being 'intercepted' by two Eufi's...
I think he is just 'waving'
I think he is just 'waving'
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Finally, whilst the internet appears to be reasonably fast, 8T-CC AKA XV292...also Linz...
Linky here: RAL 7013 - Lockheed Hercules C Mk.1P (C-130K)
Hope it's OK to post these pics as they're not directly of the K in RAF service, but still part of their history...
Linky here: RAL 7013 - Lockheed Hercules C Mk.1P (C-130K)
Hope it's OK to post these pics as they're not directly of the K in RAF service, but still part of their history...
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Welcome Andy and many thanks for the pics ... I can hear the rustle of logbook pages amongst our many followers from here ... I'm sure it won't be too long before someone says "I last flew XV --- in ..." 
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Great pics Andy, I don't know too much about these Austrian airframes. Were they amongst those with the lowest hours? Did they de mod them?
I know they retained the UK Skydel. I was asked to authorise the issue of all the airdrop APs at one time. I thought this rather odd as they had not bought MSP or some of the other unique boat stuff and role equipment we had.
I assume they pitch up at Cambridge for deep maintenance now and again.
I know they retained the UK Skydel. I was asked to authorise the issue of all the airdrop APs at one time. I thought this rather odd as they had not bought MSP or some of the other unique boat stuff and role equipment we had.
I assume they pitch up at Cambridge for deep maintenance now and again.
Andy,
thanks for those great pics. Good to know the 'K' lives on. The Sri Lanka Air Force had two I think. Like dragartist I too wonder how they chose the airframes. A beauty contest perhaps !
First made the aquaintance of XV 181 on Dec 15 1971, MCT ay Lyneham.
thanks for those great pics. Good to know the 'K' lives on. The Sri Lanka Air Force had two I think. Like dragartist I too wonder how they chose the airframes. A beauty contest perhaps !
First made the aquaintance of XV 181 on Dec 15 1971, MCT ay Lyneham.