LONG RANGE SAR
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So it would seem that many on here would say that the chances of surviving a downed airliner at long range is low. Unless assistance is close at hand I must agree, at least for the cold waters of the North Atlantic.
Now substitute airliner for SSN and SUBLOOK/SUBMISS/SUBSUNK action. What assets would you employ there?
Now substitute airliner for SSN and SUBLOOK/SUBMISS/SUBSUNK action. What assets would you employ there?
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Now you're drifting into those areas of jobs most people (especially FJ oriented brass in the RAF) probably had no clue were ever done by maritime. Still, we can leave the navy to deal with that now with their long range Merlin force. God forbid, a highly unlikely event until it happens... After all, they hijacked the defence budget with their 'aircraft less carriers.' 
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Folks. The point still remains. A glance at the BBC News makes the blood boil as there's footage of the USN P-3C conducting SAR with many many other nations.
It's a CRIME we have nothing to send. This is undeniable.
Some on here saying that a few Typhoons and a tanker can do this ought to have a long hard think.
It's a CRIME we have nothing to send. This is undeniable.
Some on here saying that a few Typhoons and a tanker can do this ought to have a long hard think.
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Air France Flight 447 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is what happens when an airplane crashes mid-atlantic; no one survives.
This is what happens when an airplane crashes mid-atlantic; no one survives.
and...
...everyone survives.
Given the right conditions and the right scenario
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Paragraph taken from the Department of Transport website current document titled:
SEARCH AND RESCUE FRAMEWORK FOR THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
(My bold)
SEARCH AND RESCUE FRAMEWORK FOR THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
(My bold)
The MoD has responsibility for providing SAR facilities for military
operations, exercises and training within the UK and, by agreement,
exercises responsibility for the co-ordination of civil aeronautical SAR on
behalf of the DfT. Where the coverage provided by military SAR assets
meets the civil SAR coverage requirements, they will be made available for
civil maritime and land-based SAR operations. The high readiness SAR
assets are SAR helicopters, maritime surveillance fixed wing aircraft and
mountain rescue teams. The MoD also establishes and maintains an
Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre (ARCC) for the operation and
co-ordination of civil and military aeronautical SAR assets.
operations, exercises and training within the UK and, by agreement,
exercises responsibility for the co-ordination of civil aeronautical SAR on
behalf of the DfT. Where the coverage provided by military SAR assets
meets the civil SAR coverage requirements, they will be made available for
civil maritime and land-based SAR operations. The high readiness SAR
assets are SAR helicopters, maritime surveillance fixed wing aircraft and
mountain rescue teams. The MoD also establishes and maintains an
Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre (ARCC) for the operation and
co-ordination of civil and military aeronautical SAR assets.
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Betty,
At PMQs, Bob Stewart asked about a long range maritime capability and got not a lot of PM waffle. You'll be pleased to know that according to the PM, the MoD will be pleased to listen to him. Hmm.
At PMQs, Bob Stewart asked about a long range maritime capability and got not a lot of PM waffle. You'll be pleased to know that according to the PM, the MoD will be pleased to listen to him. Hmm.
Surplus - obviously that particular DfT website has not been updated for many years. Maybe they are waiting until we hand over the SAR helo contract and transfer the ARCC to the civvies down south. Then, they can update it all in a one-er. 
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Or maybe the responsibilities haven't changed and we're just not complying with our obligations. Whatever the reason, we need to announce to the international community that we can longer cover our area.
Last edited by Surplus; 20th Mar 2014 at 04:13. Reason: Gramma
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Typhoons doing SAR? Absolutely f'ing hilarious
Sorry couldn't help myself
Looks like a USN P-8A has found some wreckage...
Hmmm, not quite.
Satellite imagery had shown some potential items of interest, in the Indian Ocean, 2500km SW of Perth.
One RAAF AP-3C was diverted from its search area to investigate, and this is now the main AO. RAAF has 4 x AP-3Cs and a C-130J deployed to Pearce, one USN P-8A and a NZ P-3K. HMAS Success is on the way, but not due to arrive until Saturday.
The imagery shows something analysed as 24m long, and another smaller piece.
We will see.
Hmmm, not quite.
Satellite imagery had shown some potential items of interest, in the Indian Ocean, 2500km SW of Perth.
One RAAF AP-3C was diverted from its search area to investigate, and this is now the main AO. RAAF has 4 x AP-3Cs and a C-130J deployed to Pearce, one USN P-8A and a NZ P-3K. HMAS Success is on the way, but not due to arrive until Saturday.
The imagery shows something analysed as 24m long, and another smaller piece.
We will see.
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Hi guys,
Iīm not familiar with the UK system but I can give some insight on the portuguese SAR scheme that produces some very long-range missions trough out the year. (Someone already posted some information on the 1st page).
Portugal has the largest Search Rescue Region (SRR) in Europe, representing more or less 6.000.000km2. They are coincident with the Flight Information Regions (FIRs) of Lisbon and Santa Maria and they stretch from the portuguese mainland to the Azores and Madeira islands.
The portuguese air force and portuguese navy are the main entities responsible for providing SAR coverage on this large area. Thereīs a RCC (Rescue Coordination Center) and a MRCC (Maritime Rescue Coordination Center) in Lisbon and Azores, and a secondary MRCC in Madeira.
The portuguese air force supplies the air component of the SAR scheme, and this includes:
- 1 EH-101 "Merlin" and a C-295 on 24hr alert at Montijo AB, near Lisbon.
- 1 EH-101 "Merlin" and a C-295 on 24hr alert at Porto Santo island, Madeira.
- 1 EH-101 "Merlin" (+1 reserve) and a C-295 on 24hr alert at Lajes AB, Terceira, Azores.
- 1 P-3C or C-130H (for ultra long range) in Beja AB/Montijo AB. (Thereīs always on them in 24hr alert)
- 2 Alouette 3 helicopters (one in Ovar AB, another in Beja AB) for short flights.
As you can imagine itīs a very difficult area to cover, and the P-3C is the only aircraft capable of covering almost all the area (the southwest corner of the SRR is still out of range, but they can be deployed to Cape Verde if needed).
The EH-101 "Merlin" is and excellent long-range SAR helicopter. 350NM+ missions over the sea departing from Azores are quite common, and generally 2 aircraft take part on those kind of missions: a fixed wing (a C-295 or a P-3C) and a EH-101 "Merlin".
On the areas outside the Merlin range, the only support available is from the fixed wing assets, and they usually deploy by parachute SAR kitīs and coordinate with civilian vessels in the area a SAR recovery.
If an airliner went down between a 350/380NM nautical miles from any of those bases, or other islands if in the mid-atlantic, an EH-101 "Merlin" could be in the operational area in 3H30 hours, with 30 minutes on station. A C-295 would be there sooner, providing SAR kits, coordination between any other vessels in the area and area evaluation.
We can assume that on a best case scenario the Merlin could retrieve 6 persons on a 30 minute window, at that distance. But, of course, everything depends on the operational situation and the information available to the SAR crews.
From my personal experience - and retrieving the UK part of the topic - having a long range fixed wing aircraft for SAR support is indeed very important on these kind of scenario.
A very cool video about the portuguese Merlin drivers, 751 Squadron, can be found here:
Rays of Hope on Vimeo
Cheers,
Iīm not familiar with the UK system but I can give some insight on the portuguese SAR scheme that produces some very long-range missions trough out the year. (Someone already posted some information on the 1st page).
Portugal has the largest Search Rescue Region (SRR) in Europe, representing more or less 6.000.000km2. They are coincident with the Flight Information Regions (FIRs) of Lisbon and Santa Maria and they stretch from the portuguese mainland to the Azores and Madeira islands.
The portuguese air force and portuguese navy are the main entities responsible for providing SAR coverage on this large area. Thereīs a RCC (Rescue Coordination Center) and a MRCC (Maritime Rescue Coordination Center) in Lisbon and Azores, and a secondary MRCC in Madeira.
The portuguese air force supplies the air component of the SAR scheme, and this includes:
- 1 EH-101 "Merlin" and a C-295 on 24hr alert at Montijo AB, near Lisbon.
- 1 EH-101 "Merlin" and a C-295 on 24hr alert at Porto Santo island, Madeira.
- 1 EH-101 "Merlin" (+1 reserve) and a C-295 on 24hr alert at Lajes AB, Terceira, Azores.
- 1 P-3C or C-130H (for ultra long range) in Beja AB/Montijo AB. (Thereīs always on them in 24hr alert)
- 2 Alouette 3 helicopters (one in Ovar AB, another in Beja AB) for short flights.
As you can imagine itīs a very difficult area to cover, and the P-3C is the only aircraft capable of covering almost all the area (the southwest corner of the SRR is still out of range, but they can be deployed to Cape Verde if needed).
The EH-101 "Merlin" is and excellent long-range SAR helicopter. 350NM+ missions over the sea departing from Azores are quite common, and generally 2 aircraft take part on those kind of missions: a fixed wing (a C-295 or a P-3C) and a EH-101 "Merlin".
On the areas outside the Merlin range, the only support available is from the fixed wing assets, and they usually deploy by parachute SAR kitīs and coordinate with civilian vessels in the area a SAR recovery.
If an airliner went down between a 350/380NM nautical miles from any of those bases, or other islands if in the mid-atlantic, an EH-101 "Merlin" could be in the operational area in 3H30 hours, with 30 minutes on station. A C-295 would be there sooner, providing SAR kits, coordination between any other vessels in the area and area evaluation.
We can assume that on a best case scenario the Merlin could retrieve 6 persons on a 30 minute window, at that distance. But, of course, everything depends on the operational situation and the information available to the SAR crews.
From my personal experience - and retrieving the UK part of the topic - having a long range fixed wing aircraft for SAR support is indeed very important on these kind of scenario.
A very cool video about the portuguese Merlin drivers, 751 Squadron, can be found here:
Rays of Hope on Vimeo
Cheers,
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Vertical,
Yes there was article article in last month Defence Helicopter mag describing the operations.
Mc Fly,
After Art had put 66 down and they all got out did it not sink? I don't think they had to wait long in the dingy.
Yes there was article article in last month Defence Helicopter mag describing the operations.
Mc Fly,
After Art had put 66 down and they all got out did it not sink? I don't think they had to wait long in the dingy.
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After Art had put 66 down and they all got out did it not sink? I don't think they had to wait long in the dingy.
When it ditched, I was flying on a SAR top cover for another Helo who was picking up an injured trawler-man.
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