LtGen Hal Moore-Failing Health
Thread Starter
LtGen Hal Moore-Failing Health
LtGen Hal Moore, CO of the 7th Cav unit that fought the Ia Drang Valley fight in Vietnam ("We Were Soldiers and Young" by Joe Galloway) is in rapidly failing health and plans are being made for his Funeral in Auburn, Alabama.
Initial Reports are he will be buried at Fort Benning, Georgia.
"Garry Owen, General!"......a real Soldier that Man!
He is the very essence of an Infantry Commander and Leader of Soldiers in combat.
Initial Reports are he will be buried at Fort Benning, Georgia.
"Garry Owen, General!"......a real Soldier that Man!
He is the very essence of an Infantry Commander and Leader of Soldiers in combat.
Last edited by SASless; 19th Jan 2014 at 19:23.
For those not familiar with Lt Gen Moore's inspirational leadership during the Vietnam War, I can recommend watching the movie We Were Young (2002) in which he is portrayed by Mel Gibson. The movie is based on a book written by Lt Gen Moore and a civilian reporter Joe Galloway who was also present during the battle and decorated for helping evacuate wounded under fire. Lt Gen Moore was the first in his West Point class (1945) to be promoted to 1-star, 2-star and 3-star.
The full movie is available free on line here:
Watch We Were Soldiers (2002) Online for Free - Viooz
The full movie is available free on line here:
Watch We Were Soldiers (2002) Online for Free - Viooz
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What is interesting from that battle is the number of people who went on
and up for various reasons and became well known.
Apart from Moore and Plumley, you had Joe Galloway, Rick Rescorla
Ed Freeman and Bruce Crandall and from memory a couple of others who were decorated in that battle who went on and applied the lessons learned.
My first 2IC, A Capt who was an ex RSM, tough bastard and the guy
who knocked me into shape gave me a book on Vietnam and the first
chapter is on Ia Drang.
and up for various reasons and became well known.
Apart from Moore and Plumley, you had Joe Galloway, Rick Rescorla
Ed Freeman and Bruce Crandall and from memory a couple of others who were decorated in that battle who went on and applied the lessons learned.
My first 2IC, A Capt who was an ex RSM, tough bastard and the guy
who knocked me into shape gave me a book on Vietnam and the first
chapter is on Ia Drang.
Thread Starter
Moore made some very good decisions early in the fight and all during the battle maneuvered his Battalion and later a second Battalion in exactly the right way to counter the NVA's attacks.
He was very concerned at the outset about his Battalion being brought in Piecemeal with fairly long delays between Lifts arriving.
Standard tactics called for a 360 degree security perimeter at the LZ....but with only 88 Troops on the first Lift....he knew he could not do that and push contact with any Enemy forces back from his Perimeter. He elected to keep a fair number of troops close to the center of the LZ and send out small squads to seek out the enemy units. He felt that way he could direct what Troops he had towards the point of contact.
He also stayed on the ground in the LZ directing the battle from that location and put his Arty and Air FO's in his Command and Control Helicopter so they would have the best Comms and view of the battlefield to facilitate their coordinating of Fires.
This animation shows how he moved his troops......it is un-canny how he thwarted each move by the NVA.
The sad thing about this battle is each side thought they won. We thought we had proved overwhelming firepower from air units and artillery combined with the helicopter support gave us the winning hand.
The NVA learned they had to get in close and maintain very close contact to prevent us from using that superior firepower against them due to the close proximity of their forces to ours.
Ia Drang and Landing Zone X-Ray
The LZ X-Ray fight resulted in 79 US KIA, 121 WIA, Three Medals of Honor, Two DSC's, and a Bronze Star for a Civilian (Joe Galloway).
The Battalion that relieved Moore's unit was ambushed on the way to LZ Albany and lost 155 KiA and 124 WIA. Their's is a heartbreaking story.
He was very concerned at the outset about his Battalion being brought in Piecemeal with fairly long delays between Lifts arriving.
Standard tactics called for a 360 degree security perimeter at the LZ....but with only 88 Troops on the first Lift....he knew he could not do that and push contact with any Enemy forces back from his Perimeter. He elected to keep a fair number of troops close to the center of the LZ and send out small squads to seek out the enemy units. He felt that way he could direct what Troops he had towards the point of contact.
He also stayed on the ground in the LZ directing the battle from that location and put his Arty and Air FO's in his Command and Control Helicopter so they would have the best Comms and view of the battlefield to facilitate their coordinating of Fires.
This animation shows how he moved his troops......it is un-canny how he thwarted each move by the NVA.
The sad thing about this battle is each side thought they won. We thought we had proved overwhelming firepower from air units and artillery combined with the helicopter support gave us the winning hand.
The NVA learned they had to get in close and maintain very close contact to prevent us from using that superior firepower against them due to the close proximity of their forces to ours.
Ia Drang and Landing Zone X-Ray
The LZ X-Ray fight resulted in 79 US KIA, 121 WIA, Three Medals of Honor, Two DSC's, and a Bronze Star for a Civilian (Joe Galloway).
The Battalion that relieved Moore's unit was ambushed on the way to LZ Albany and lost 155 KiA and 124 WIA. Their's is a heartbreaking story.
Last edited by SASless; 19th Jan 2014 at 21:16.
Broken Arrow as current used in US means lost Nuke.
In link from SAS on day 3 there is a "Broken Arrow Alert" flashed up at time Cav had been overrun in certain sections.
I'm trying to understand the meaning of the term used then.
In link from SAS on day 3 there is a "Broken Arrow Alert" flashed up at time Cav had been overrun in certain sections.
I'm trying to understand the meaning of the term used then.
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I thought it meant (then) all available air support was required to
provide support to the unit that had put out the call over previous
taskings.
But I will wait for SaSless to explain since he is likely to know
the exact or correct answer.
provide support to the unit that had put out the call over previous
taskings.
But I will wait for SaSless to explain since he is likely to know
the exact or correct answer.
"Pinnacle - Broken Arrow" refers to an accidental event that involves nuclear weapons, warheads or components which does not create the risk of nuclear war (public available info on Wikipedia).
In the context of the Vietnam War, the term "Broken Arrow" was used to call in all available aircraft for airstrikes to assist a unit facing imminent defeat in battle.
In the context of the Vietnam War, the term "Broken Arrow" was used to call in all available aircraft for airstrikes to assist a unit facing imminent defeat in battle.
The 'Broken Arrow' call sign was used in this case to signify the commander on the ground needs all available fire support. I think it was because Hal thought that he was about to be over-run?
I think that's the bit in the film where he listens and hears enemy fire through 360 degrees, and then makes the Broken Arrow call.
I think that's the bit in the film where he listens and hears enemy fire through 360 degrees, and then makes the Broken Arrow call.
Thread Starter
500N,
I shall defer to Hollywood on this one....the only times I heard a call for help go out about units being over run it was done in plain English.
When you hear that kind of talk it is heart stopping in effect.
Then.....it is like a "Hey Rube!" call at the circus.....everyone that can help heads that way.
Generally it was Platoons that got over run although some Fire Bases had that happen. In some situations units called friendly artillery down on their own positions and in one instance called Napalm on themselves. A 101st Airborne Company Commander named Carpenter did that and got the DSC for doing so. Oddly, none of his guys were hurt and the Napalm broke the Enemy attack. Carpenter played the "Lonesome End" on the West Point Football Team.
The classic case of a unit being over run was the Special Forces unit at the Lang Vei SF Camp not far from Khe Sanh. The NVA attacked using PT-76 Tanks. The only weapon the SF guys had to counter the Tanks were LAW Rockets that proved damn near useless. The QRF for the SF guys was the Marines at Khe Sanh.....who stayed home.....but to be fair it was more high levels of command that caused that rather than the Marines at KS itself.
Feb 6-7, 1968: Battle of Lang Vei Special Forces Camp | Vietnam War | Command Posts
I shall defer to Hollywood on this one....the only times I heard a call for help go out about units being over run it was done in plain English.
When you hear that kind of talk it is heart stopping in effect.
Then.....it is like a "Hey Rube!" call at the circus.....everyone that can help heads that way.
Generally it was Platoons that got over run although some Fire Bases had that happen. In some situations units called friendly artillery down on their own positions and in one instance called Napalm on themselves. A 101st Airborne Company Commander named Carpenter did that and got the DSC for doing so. Oddly, none of his guys were hurt and the Napalm broke the Enemy attack. Carpenter played the "Lonesome End" on the West Point Football Team.
The classic case of a unit being over run was the Special Forces unit at the Lang Vei SF Camp not far from Khe Sanh. The NVA attacked using PT-76 Tanks. The only weapon the SF guys had to counter the Tanks were LAW Rockets that proved damn near useless. The QRF for the SF guys was the Marines at Khe Sanh.....who stayed home.....but to be fair it was more high levels of command that caused that rather than the Marines at KS itself.
Feb 6-7, 1968: Battle of Lang Vei Special Forces Camp | Vietnam War | Command Posts
Last edited by SASless; 19th Jan 2014 at 23:24.
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SaS
One of the best books I have read is MACV-SOG by Maj John Plaster.
I have his Sniper book sitting on the floor by my desk.
The MACV-SOG book goes into some great detail about the various fire bases
that were over run including Lang Vei.
One of the best books I have read is MACV-SOG by Maj John Plaster.
I have his Sniper book sitting on the floor by my desk.
The MACV-SOG book goes into some great detail about the various fire bases
that were over run including Lang Vei.
Not having read any of the books mentioned (just seen the likes of Born on the 4th of July, Full Metal Jacket, Platoon etc.). Just curious has any of the real participants mentioned above questioned the Vietnam war?
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The book is excellent and written with great humanity. The film is total Hollywood crap...I'm amazed any military person could endorse it.
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I found the interview with Joe Galloway on youtube and watched it again tonight.
He mentions about "Broken Arrow" which he said were the words used at that time to designate all available support required.
A very good interview which he describes his one nightmare from that battle
and some other interesting insights.
Considering he was not a soldier, a well earned bronze Star with V device.
He mentions about "Broken Arrow" which he said were the words used at that time to designate all available support required.
A very good interview which he describes his one nightmare from that battle
and some other interesting insights.
Considering he was not a soldier, a well earned bronze Star with V device.
Not having read any of the books mentioned (just seen the likes of Born on the 4th of July, Full Metal Jacket, Platoon etc.). Just curious has any of the real participants mentioned above questioned the Vietnam war?
I think the fact they are still held in high esteem suggests that what ever feelings they had in private, were kept private, rather than publicly aired to suit media frenzy.
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Considering quite a few if not all of them continued on in the Army
for some considerable time after that battle and many went on to middle
and senior ranks, I would agree.
for some considerable time after that battle and many went on to middle
and senior ranks, I would agree.