UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement

[ORAC]

Rumours abounding that the Japanese may be sending two P-1s to RIAT this year. Nothing officially announced as yet. If so, it would seem a serious intent to show them off to the MoD.

AW&ST: Kawasaki P-1 To Make International Debut In U.K.



Japan is to send two of its new generation Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft to the U.K. with the aim of marketing the platform to the British as a future submarine hunter. The two aircraft from the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Forces will make their much-anticipated international debut at the Royal International Air Tattoo on July 17-19 appearing in both the static and flying displays at RAF Fairford, Gloucestershire.

The visit comes as Japan aims to push the four-engined aircraft into the export market and to meet an expected U.K. requirement for a maritime patroller that is widely expected emerge in the U.K.’s Strategic Defense and Security Review towards the end of this year.

The visit is highly significant and represents the first appearance of an indigenous Japanese military aircraft at a foreign airshow since 1997. But it is also the first time such a machine will have been been deployed with the aim trying to sell it overseas. Japan’s decades-old rules on exporting military equipment were only relaxed in 2014.

In January reports emerged that Japanese officials had talked about offering the P-1 to the U.K. at the Farnborough Airshow last year. Both London and Tokyo have been exploring closer defense ties for many years and this has resulted in significant discussions about the development of a new generation seeker head technology being developed in Japan which could find its way onto the MBDA Meteor air-to-air missile. Japanese pilots are also understood to have visited the U.K. to fly the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Japan is buying the Kawasaki P-1 to replace the country’s aging fleet of Lockheed P-3 Orion patrol aircraft. The aircraft entered operational service in 2013. Twenty of the aircraft are on order to be delivered up to 2021. Japan is also courting a number of potential foreign sales of its Shin Maywa US-2 amphibious long-range patrol aircraft.

Japanese military aircraft rarely attend airshows beyond the country’s borders. However Japan Air Self-Defense Force aircraft have attended the Air Tattoo before, with the air arm making its debut at the show in 2012, bringing a Boeing KC-767 tanker and making a repeat visit in 2014.

The P-1 won’t be the only aircraft at the show battling for attention from British procurement officials. Boeing is sending a U.S. Navy P-8 Poseidon and its prototype Challenger business jet-based Maritime Surveillance Aircraft. Several Airbus Defense and Space C295s will also be at the show but not in maritime patrol configuration.

[AQAfive]

My fear is that the only people to be hosted will be the twin wing master race, as that's the only trade recognised by management, all the others having been made redundant. They will then be swayed by flashy flight deck displays and video, with the performance of the sensors left to chance.

In addition, those that make the decision, i.e. grey suits near Bristol, will not know how to buy from Japan, the US yes, there will be a process for that, but not from the East. And Mr Boeing will be most persuasive.

So whilst something is better than nothing, I fear that the easiest buy will end up at Waddington, if indeed we go that far.

But, it's a few years since I was in the know, and, after all, I predicted the then Labour government would choose the Nimrod AEW3 if only to protect British jobs. And I did eat my words, (after I put them down on paper).

I am much older and wiser now, but I still get surprised.

Incidentally, I was on a crew that gave a ground demonstrated the MR2 to the Japanese Navy at Atsugi several years ago. Despite the language barrier, they were very keen. It was a Saturday and all the Sqn personnel seemed to be there. The culture was different as well, despite blistering heat, the Admiral (Base Commander I think) queued with the rest of his men.

Other tales to tell, another time.

[The Old Fat One]

Pedant alert

I was on a crew that gave a ground demonstrated the MR2 to the Japanese Navy

Japan don't have a navy, bud....it's forbidden under their constitution. You mean Japanese Maritime Defense Force...the one that had 90 MPA when I was in

[Willard Whyte]

Looks like someone put a DC-8 on a hot wash by mistake.

[Party Animal]

Pedant Alert 2

You mean Japanese Maritime Defense Force

Actually the Japanese Naval Arm is the Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force (JMSDF)

Some of whom, I'm currently working with!

[AQAfive]

TOFO, PA

Point taken, after all I am a stickler for accuracy.

[camelspyyder]

Their "Self-Defence" force is quite expeditionary these days. Met members of it in Iraq, and the north west Indian Ocean.

I bet operating their new Aircraft Carrier is against the post-war constitution as well

[Davef68]

But it's a helicopter carrying destroyer (The worst subterfuge since through-deck cruiser)

[KPax]

Hopefully if they buy the P1 they will take it a 'total package' and not the airframe with BAE getting to fit the inside.

[althenick]

But will we be allowed to take the complete package?

I thought Japan had rules about defence exports?

[Davef68]

Originally Posted by althenick

I thought Japan had rules about defence exports?

Relaxed those a few years back

[Pontius Navigator]

Would there be an aircrew height and weight issue?

Would it have a built in rice cooker?

[hulahoop7]

I wonder what they are offering to buy in return?

[Bannock]

Heads Up Pompey dockyard for RIAT arrivals day. These guys have some previous.
32 hardpoints between two Aircraft can do some serious damage to empty jetties

P1 engine options includes Rolls-Royce BR710 - now only if we had a large pool of them along with parts and engineers. We would save a fortune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raytheon_Sentinel

[Wander00]

Story told last night over supper by gite guest and allegedly true


Immigration desk at major UK airport


Japanese visitor presents passport -"Purpose of your visit, Sir?


"I am here for conference, I am head of Japanese Railway System"




Immigration Officer " Nice to see you are building your own railways nowadays. Enjoy your visit"

[DCThumb]

Not any from Sentinel, but must be lots already marinated (!) from MRA4....

[biddedout]

The decision should be based entirely on the galley fit.

It looks like they beat the P8 in one area though, the windows look huge.

[Pontius Navigator]

I wonder why there are so few windows on either? EO offers abilities such as freeze frame, recording and play back but surely the Mk 1 eyeball still has something to offer.

Direct viewing offers the chance of a peripheral sighting.

[Davef68]

Originally Posted by biddedout

T
It looks like they beat the P8 in one area though, the windows look huge.

One reason why it looks a lot smaller than it actually is - the side by side with the P-8 is revealing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasa...gi_in_2014.JPG

[055166k]

I'm just a taxpayer. Let's see....one is a converted airliner......one is built-for-purpose.......one has twice the range and costs half as much as the other, and flies out on four and patrols on two [ring a bell????].
Which company gives the best lunches? Maybe it's those guys that sold us the 50 year old RC135s.