UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement
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Camelspyder (or anyone)...as ex kipper (and still a taxpayer 
) I'm intrigued as to what infrastructure still exists to train modern day dry and wet peeps.
AAITC is easy enough...just plug it on the side of IOT (I think that might have already been done?), but I thought main school is long gone. I thought WSOPs (AKA loadmasters old money) trained on site...ie with the fleets they will fly on.
If it's just AWACs bods, presumably they can go down the same road. AAITC with IOT at Cranwell then straight to some sort of pre OCU course with the training bods on the AWACs Sqns???
Or have I got this all wrong and there is some sort of modern day 6FTS/main school still functioning at Cranwell????
Don't see any sign of such a thing on the RAF Cranwell website?
@ Bannock...we did the RAF recruiting website a while back. Basically, it's a joke.
) I'm intrigued as to what infrastructure still exists to train modern day dry and wet peeps.AAITC is easy enough...just plug it on the side of IOT (I think that might have already been done?), but I thought main school is long gone. I thought WSOPs (AKA loadmasters old money) trained on site...ie with the fleets they will fly on.
If it's just AWACs bods, presumably they can go down the same road. AAITC with IOT at Cranwell then straight to some sort of pre OCU course with the training bods on the AWACs Sqns???
Or have I got this all wrong and there is some sort of modern day 6FTS/main school still functioning at Cranwell????
Don't see any sign of such a thing on the RAF Cranwell website?
@ Bannock...we did the RAF recruiting website a while back. Basically, it's a joke.
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We're still here it's true. Whilst Aircrew training continues to be located at North Sleaford, the ITC is under the auspices of OACTU, and"main school" is part of 45(R)Sqn and therefore 3 FTS. The 3FTS website probably has more gen than the Cranwell one.
Training? The Generic Phase teaches all NCA students Aerospace Principles, Comms, Airmanship etc prior to streaming RW / FW / ISTAR. Regarding the latter, but with the proviso that there are no ISTAR students at present, on site we currently have courses teaching Acoustics, EO/IR & Principles of EW, so it can be seen that the required content is available.
Course design for future ISTAR students is pretty much complete, but it is aimed at supplying all of the ISTAR customers; it is not a pre-course for the P-8 OCU.
Your pre-OCU course for AWACS/ Sentinel etc. is done here as well. All the specialists (ABM / AT / IA) do 2 months at 45(R) before going to Waddington.
Fixed Wing train here too, and Rotary go to Shawbury. None are trained on the job at OCU's until they are ready.
CS
Training? The Generic Phase teaches all NCA students Aerospace Principles, Comms, Airmanship etc prior to streaming RW / FW / ISTAR. Regarding the latter, but with the proviso that there are no ISTAR students at present, on site we currently have courses teaching Acoustics, EO/IR & Principles of EW, so it can be seen that the required content is available.
Course design for future ISTAR students is pretty much complete, but it is aimed at supplying all of the ISTAR customers; it is not a pre-course for the P-8 OCU.
Your pre-OCU course for AWACS/ Sentinel etc. is done here as well. All the specialists (ABM / AT / IA) do 2 months at 45(R) before going to Waddington.
Fixed Wing train here too, and Rotary go to Shawbury. None are trained on the job at OCU's until they are ready.
CS
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Many thanks for the update. Do I assume correctly that actual "flying training" is absent from any part of the packages delivered, since the demise of the Dominie, or are the studes you have getting some meaningful flying in (I don't mean as air experience pax in King Airs)....which also begs the question, when do they get their brevet (& of course, flying pay)?
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oops...need to post a correction. Just visited the RAF recruitment website and noted a whole new look since I made my comments a few months back, so my comment at the bottom of post #700 is happily withdrawn.
Was visiting to find out what Avenger is...is it a UAV?
Was visiting to find out what Avenger is...is it a UAV?
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WW,
I'm a supplier, the (value-added) students are my product, the organisations further down the training pipeline are customers.
I totally agree, modern management speak makes me puke too.
And you should see the amount of spin applied to surveys in the public arena eg. "Morale is down 40% since last year - but it's still higher than it was in 1996" etc.
Meanwhile, back at the thread, where are we supposed to conjure up 10, 15 crews for the anticipated MMA fleet when most of the specialists now work in the oil & gas indutries?
I'm a supplier, the (value-added) students are my product, the organisations further down the training pipeline are customers.
I totally agree, modern management speak makes me puke too.
And you should see the amount of spin applied to surveys in the public arena eg. "Morale is down 40% since last year - but it's still higher than it was in 1996" etc.
Meanwhile, back at the thread, where are we supposed to conjure up 10, 15 crews for the anticipated MMA fleet when most of the specialists now work in the oil & gas indutries?
TOFO,
I've flown in the Avenger and its about half the volume of a Dominie - so no chance of a galley, let alone a wine cooler that we had for the MRA4!
Interestingly, having spent a day with 750 Sqn recently, there was no mention of training RAF WSOps in the near future?
Reckon you could fit a small galley in that thing
Interestingly, having spent a day with 750 Sqn recently, there was no mention of training RAF WSOps in the near future?
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Why Russian's submarines pose a direct threat to Britain - Telegraph
Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said every member should increase military spending to deal with ‘unpredictable and uncertain threats’, …
Make the decision then,its a no brainer, this threat is predictable and certain.
Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said every member should increase military spending to deal with ‘unpredictable and uncertain threats’, …
Make the decision then,its a no brainer, this threat is predictable and certain.
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"where are we supposed to conjure up 10, 15 crews for the anticipated MMA fleet when most of the specialists now work in the oil & gas industries"
with a falling oil price they may be queuing up to return........
with a falling oil price they may be queuing up to return........
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I was a 'Wet-Man' for loadsa years but I don't imagine they'll take me back at 62 :o(
I'd love to teach acoustic target recognition / acoustic analysis though!
I'd love to teach acoustic target recognition / acoustic analysis though!
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Like many I have improved on my former pay packet since leaving 3 years ago to the point it would be painful to take the cut to rejoin. You cut your cloth accordingly as they say...
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with a falling oil price they may be queuing up to return........
Almost everybody that did this job has gone forever for a multitude of reasons, which need not concern us, but age alone would rule out the vast majority being re-recruited and retrained.
So, in the event, we ever need a "workable" number of crews again (8-12, with 1 or 2 in the training role, like one sqn with a training element) they would need to be recruited and trained from scratch. Presumably by seedcorners and the outfits still training other types or rear-end aircrew.
I'd suggest you can draw two conclusions from that:
a. Whatever, it will take 3-5 years to re-establish an operational capability from the go date.
b. The window for an RAF only solution closes when the seedcorners leave the building. After that, the RN will have to be part of the crew, because the RAF will have lost its ASW expertise for ever.
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"Whatever, it will take 3-5 years to re-establish an operational capability from the go date"
Norway, Canada and Germany operate quite well with around 5 crews.
With the guys that escaped the Kipper Fleet Cull flying in other fleets still around and the Seedcorners I believe we can achieve a similar capability within 2 years of starting the first course as long as we utilise / Augment our allied OCUs .( The decision has to be made soon) I agree 3-5 years is right for your 8-12 scenario with a home based OCU but IOC should not be based on this.
Norway, Canada and Germany operate quite well with around 5 crews.
With the guys that escaped the Kipper Fleet Cull flying in other fleets still around and the Seedcorners I believe we can achieve a similar capability within 2 years of starting the first course as long as we utilise / Augment our allied OCUs .( The decision has to be made soon) I agree 3-5 years is right for your 8-12 scenario with a home based OCU but IOC should not be based on this.
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Con Coughlin has got the bit between his teeth.
Putin is dragging the West into murky waters - Telegraph
Putin is dragging the West into murky waters - Telegraph
a. Whatever, it will take 3-5 years to re-establish an operational capability from the go date.
b. The window for an RAF only solution closes when the seedcorners leave the building. After that, the RN will have to be part of the crew, because the RAF will have lost its ASW expertise for ever.
b. The window for an RAF only solution closes when the seedcorners leave the building. After that, the RN will have to be part of the crew, because the RAF will have lost its ASW expertise for ever.
The window will be open or closed based on SDSR 15. If the govt of the day commits to buying a platform that can do the MPA role, then we're game on and everything will be ramped up accordingly. Conversely, if we just cannot afford to buy or lease the capability over the next 5 years, then I suspect SEEDCORN will rapidly become history and its anyones guess where we go from there.