UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
A jet transmits significantly less sound into water than a turboprop. A P3 at 20k was clearly audible as it on-topped its own buoys and obliterated the CPA
Stuffy
I think what TB7 was referring to was your erroneous assertion:
Have you informed the US, Japanese and Indian militaries?
Duhhhhhh !
The Nimrod could loiter on two engines.
The Nimrod could loiter on two engines.
My point being, an MPA must be a turboprop.
The Airbus A319 airframe is superior to the Boeing 737.
A jet cannot compete with a turboprop at low levels.
Invite the French to base a few Atlantique Mk 2's in the UK.
A jet transmits significantly less sound into water than a turboprop
Oh for the days of Andros...
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
PA, thank you, I admit that knowledge of aircraft noise transmission was pretty poor in the 70s. We would try and avoid overflying the target but when I asked how long the towed array was the answer was a lemon. The P3 I mentioned was a true incident and the oncoming crew, also P3 were royally pissed off.
Quote:
A jet transmits
significantly less sound into water than a
turboprop
PN - not strictly true. It is dependant on engine type and numbers, height
above the water and radiation pattern. The MR2 (broadband) was far noisier than
the P3 but in a very small directed footprint. Analagous to a spotlight as
oppossed to a 60 watt bulb if that makes sense.
Oh for the days of
Andros...
A jet transmits
significantly less sound into water than a
turboprop
PN - not strictly true. It is dependant on engine type and numbers, height
above the water and radiation pattern. The MR2 (broadband) was far noisier than
the P3 but in a very small directed footprint. Analagous to a spotlight as
oppossed to a 60 watt bulb if that makes sense.
Oh for the days of
Andros...
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The Boeing P8 Poseidon is the answer then !
It ticks all the Civil Service boxes.
1)It is expensive.
2) It does not produce UK jobs.
3) It does not work.
4) Minimal endurance because airliners are thirsty below 24,000 feet.
5) It was not made in Britain.
6) It, like the Comet is based on a 1950's fuselage.
7) It is built by Boeing so it must be good. Don't worry about the finish because of the man hours cost.
8) The whole concept is flawed.
9) It was picked by a Civil Servant with a degree in Greek Classics.
10) It helps towards the US economy.
12) It does not effect house prices.
13) A Boeing 'Bung' is every bit as good as Lockheed.
14) It is not a Labour party project.
15) It will not have to operate in Scotland when they go independent.
16) It is not French.
17 ) It is not being bought by the EU, yet?
Yes, these are but a few reasons why the Boeing B737, errr I mean P8.
Is a perfect MPA.
It ticks all the Civil Service boxes.
1)It is expensive.
2) It does not produce UK jobs.
3) It does not work.
4) Minimal endurance because airliners are thirsty below 24,000 feet.
5) It was not made in Britain.
6) It, like the Comet is based on a 1950's fuselage.
7) It is built by Boeing so it must be good. Don't worry about the finish because of the man hours cost.
8) The whole concept is flawed.
9) It was picked by a Civil Servant with a degree in Greek Classics.
10) It helps towards the US economy.
12) It does not effect house prices.
13) A Boeing 'Bung' is every bit as good as Lockheed.
14) It is not a Labour party project.
15) It will not have to operate in Scotland when they go independent.
16) It is not French.
17 ) It is not being bought by the EU, yet?
Yes, these are but a few reasons why the Boeing B737, errr I mean P8.
Is a perfect MPA.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
If you read back you will see that ALL sound is transmitted through water.
Nice one Stuffy
Defeated by logic you resort to making it up completely. . Irrelevant that the jet engined A319 meets many of your "box ticks" (I particularly like No 4) with the added but minor one: the A319 MPA hasn't got beyond the paper advertising flier yet!
Oh, the same as the Sea Herc!!
But hey-ho never let a small detail like that get in the way
Defeated by logic you resort to making it up completely. . Irrelevant that the jet engined A319 meets many of your "box ticks" (I particularly like No 4) with the added but minor one: the A319 MPA hasn't got beyond the paper advertising flier yet!
Oh, the same as the Sea Herc!!
But hey-ho never let a small detail like that get in the way
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Not to mention the Australians, who have signed contracts to replace their turboprop P-3s with P-8s?
obliterated the CPA
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Instead of being able to start tracking they had to try to relocate the alerted submarine.
16) It is not French.
I chose not to break the law and ignored him.
Not 2 months ago, DE&S policy branch cited this ruling, in writing, and emphatically stated they stood by it.
But I like your list!
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Stuffy.
Please stop posting utter utter utter utter nonsense! Yes, this is a rumour site. But get a grip.
The P-8 flys beautifully at low level, I'm led to believe. It flies as well as any turboprop. I'm afraid your understanding of aerodynamics is poor if you throw out these untruths.
The reason the Nimrod shut down engines was purely a fuel based decision. The MRA 4 would never have shut down engines on task. Different time. Different engines. And different generators. The P-8 would never fly with one engine shutdown for fuel economy. It's a ridiculous comparison to try and make. Yes it flies in the same environment, but it's a different air vehicle. Apples and oranges.
And before Biggus takes a side swipe at me for daring to mentioning P-8A, I'm purely replying to some very weird "logic" from Stuffy
Please stop posting utter utter utter utter nonsense! Yes, this is a rumour site. But get a grip.
The P-8 flys beautifully at low level, I'm led to believe. It flies as well as any turboprop. I'm afraid your understanding of aerodynamics is poor if you throw out these untruths.
The reason the Nimrod shut down engines was purely a fuel based decision. The MRA 4 would never have shut down engines on task. Different time. Different engines. And different generators. The P-8 would never fly with one engine shutdown for fuel economy. It's a ridiculous comparison to try and make. Yes it flies in the same environment, but it's a different air vehicle. Apples and oranges.
And before Biggus takes a side swipe at me for daring to mentioning P-8A, I'm purely replying to some very weird "logic" from Stuffy
Last edited by betty swallox; 31st Jan 2014 at 01:50.
Nostalgia Forums.
Nimrod MR I & IIP was a great aeroplane for the era. Last flown as a Air Eng in 1989.
I'm sure if Nimrod 4 had arrived on time (AKA Nimrod 2000), then it may have been OK. But over budget and over time, the suits must have had enough. And yes, I'm talking out of my proverbial, as I don't know if it worked in the end. I'm sure they'll be an expert explaining that it did or didn't soon enough.
Replacement, is there a need except to keep some Scots in work at Kinloss? What is the threat in this region? What do we need an MPA for: SSBN location and destruction / SAR.
The Afghan type roles are surely been done by drones these days.
Now if it was based off the China coast, now I understand the threat......
Nimrod MR I & IIP was a great aeroplane for the era. Last flown as a Air Eng in 1989.
I'm sure if Nimrod 4 had arrived on time (AKA Nimrod 2000), then it may have been OK. But over budget and over time, the suits must have had enough. And yes, I'm talking out of my proverbial, as I don't know if it worked in the end. I'm sure they'll be an expert explaining that it did or didn't soon enough.
Replacement, is there a need except to keep some Scots in work at Kinloss? What is the threat in this region? What do we need an MPA for: SSBN location and destruction / SAR.
The Afghan type roles are surely been done by drones these days.
Now if it was based off the China coast, now I understand the threat......
Quote:
Originally Posted by melmothtw
I read somewhere that the Tu-142 Bear MPA is so
noisy it can actually be 'heard' by the submarine it's tracking. Is this true or
anecdotal, and is this something that happens for other turboprop or jet
MPAs?
If you read back you will see that ALL sound is transmitted through
water.
Originally Posted by melmothtw
I read somewhere that the Tu-142 Bear MPA is so
noisy it can actually be 'heard' by the submarine it's tracking. Is this true or
anecdotal, and is this something that happens for other turboprop or jet
MPAs?
If you read back you will see that ALL sound is transmitted through
water.