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UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement

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UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement

Old 12th May 2015, 07:55
  #1161 (permalink)  
 
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C295 Maritime Patrol Aircraft - Naval Technology
Seems to tick all the boxes.
Anyone know how it performed in the NATO exercises mentioned?
Built and designed in Europe, Airworthiness certificates not a problem, and widely exported.
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Old 12th May 2015, 08:08
  #1162 (permalink)  
 
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Jayand: Seems to tick all the boxes.
Does it exist as an all up MPA?
What about its range?
Endurance?
Speed?
Payload (including weapons)?

Figures from your link don't look very good. 260 Kts max speed??

Same applies to the SAAB offering.

Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 12th May 2015 at 08:25.
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Old 12th May 2015, 09:16
  #1163 (permalink)  
 
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Does it exist as an all up MPA?
What about its range?
Endurance?
Speed?
Payload (including weapons)?



What about crew comfort? Sending people out to work intensively for hours on end, in that?


Stop stuffing around - get P-8.
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Old 12th May 2015, 09:51
  #1164 (permalink)  
 
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Betty, thank you, didn't realise the MRA 4 was bigger than the Nimrod
Something the designers of MRA4 would have done well to remember.
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:14
  #1165 (permalink)  
 
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Roland the link answers all those questions and ticks all the boxes. Did you read the link? top speed 480 kts.
Crew comfort? This is the military we're talking about here not Virgin Atlantic lol and I suspect without admittedly having been in one that the comfort is fine (P3'S and Atlantiques have managed fine) This is a modern aircraft built in Europe, certified, used all over the world and ready to roll off the production line into service at a fraction of the cost.
If the politicans aren't interested in that I'd be very surprised.
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:15
  #1166 (permalink)  
 
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Bannock

Which all goes to show, it aint an easy answer!

During my tenure on the MRA4 project, there were endless calls for particular items. The answer was always that we 'wanted the Rolls Royce solution' and money was tight. We explained that it was the solution that would work and would be cheaper in the long run. 'Long run' don't count in civil service speak, this years budget is the only currency.

As it was the MRA 4 ticked all the boxes where sensors were concerned. You will therefore find all sorts of views on performance and sensors by some who know, some who think they know and others who have axes to grind, all valid views in my opinion. The solution is always a compromise after all.

I retired before the big JCB did its worst; but I still wonder what might have been. What was that book again, Dinosaurs, Donkeys and ?... must read that.
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:22
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The maritime patrol variant can be fitted with the FITS mission system, which integrates the data from the sensors. - Image - Airforce Technology
Yeah crew comfort looks awful lol
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:24
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Jayand: Did you read the link? top speed 480 kts.
It would appear that I did and you didn't:

The C295 can fly at a maximum speed of 480km/h
That is kilometers an hour, not nautical miles an hour. 480 km/h equates to about 260 knots = slow!
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:27
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Ha, ok you might have me there
Speed isn't everything though, and like it's been you have to compromise something with every platform.
Ejército del aire. CASA C-295 (T.21)
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:35
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Nice pictures; not sure of the relevance. That is an AT aircraft, not a swept up modern multi mission aircraft/maritime patrol aircraft.
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:44
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Its interesting to read that Japans P1 MMA is being bought not just to replace its P3 fleet but to Augment its upgraded MPA P3.

Japan Boosts ISR Abilities Across Domains
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:57
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Roland, the relevance? the picture is of a dedicated MPA aircraft as used by the Chileans, Mexicans and soon to be Spanish! Full of an intergrated mission system, able to do ASW, ASUW, has proven weapons capability and multi sensors including FLIR, MAD etc.
Is that not relevant?
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Old 12th May 2015, 10:58
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The maritime patrol variant can be fitted with the FITS mission system, which integrates the data from the sensors. - Image - Airforce Technology
Have another look in case you missed it lol
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Old 12th May 2015, 11:01
  #1174 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus Military / EADS CASA C-295 - Tactical Military Transport / Maritime Patrol Aircraft - History, Specs and Pictures - Military Aircraft
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Old 12th May 2015, 11:12
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but the the P-1 is an MMA.
Care to elaborate on your definition of "multi-mission aircraft" Mel?
Just seen your question Roland. My definition of MMA is those platforms that offer the full panoply of a surface search radar, sonobuoy release and exploitation, as well as weapons carriage.

All of these criteria are satisfied by the P-1.
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Old 12th May 2015, 11:14
  #1176 (permalink)  
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Jayland, you must balance speed and endurance. Looking at Wiki the endurance between Cass295 and Nimrod is similar. Speed on task would be similar. The big difference is in transit speed. Nimrod could be on task in 90 minutes about an hour sooner than Casa, stay there a bit longer.
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Old 12th May 2015, 13:22
  #1177 (permalink)  
 
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Jayand, I was referring to your post 1211, which takes you to lots of pictures of a 295 transport aircraft not an MPA and certainly not an MMA.

Mel. So what you refer to is a traditional deep water MPA in reality rather than an MMA.
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Old 12th May 2015, 13:38
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Mel. So what you refer to is a traditional deep water MPA in reality rather than an MMA.
I don't know what the traditional lexicon was, but if an aircraft is able to perform a variety of maritime roles - ASW, ASuW, long-range SAR, maritime surveillance, etc - then it is by definition a maritime multimission aircraft (MMA), no?

I believe the P-1 was mentioned in the context of this thread because the poster (I can't remember who) suggested that it was not an MMA, and so inferior to the P-8 (which is classified by the US Navy as an MMA) and so not up to our requirements.

While not looking to get into the relative merits of the two platforms, the P-1 is designed to perform the same mission set as the P-8, and that was my point when I said that the P-1 is an MMA.

Out of curiosity, how would you differentiate a 'deep water MPA' and an MMA (specifically in relation to the UK's MPA requirements)?
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Old 12th May 2015, 14:36
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MMA - same aircraft type will also be able to take over ASTOR/Sentinel role as well as do 'MPA'. P-8 is being configured to do that.
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Old 12th May 2015, 14:46
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Not sure I quite get your gist there Alfred. The P-8 already is an MMA, at least according to the US Navy The US Navy -- Fact File: P-8A Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft (MMA)

If the P-8 is an MMA, then so is the P-1. That was the only point I was making in my original comment.
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