Oldsarbouy

This could also apply to the Rotorhead forum but I'm amazed that there is no military helicopter assistance to communities cut off by the recent floods especially in the Southwest. To see food supplies being ferried in by very small boats along flooded roads where any manner of obstruction could be hidden strikes me as positively dangerous. I recall back in the blizzards of 1978 when two Whirlwinds from Chivenor supplied a big chunk of the Southwest with neccessities ( including supplies of beer and spirits to a beleagured pub) and here we are many years later with much more capable helos but none in sight. If there are such missions happening then surely a PR opportunity is being missed as well.

iRaven

I believe they're busy searching for idiots that think it funny to go larking about in waves and taking pictures on harbour walls...

The unintended consequence of the UK's "celebrity" culture!

iRaven

Hangarshuffle

MPGS were escorting the civvies through the base the other day. Civvies in the village of Yeovilton cut off from the rest of snivilization by the water are allowed access in and out via the base.
You have a point mind. Could the Air Arm even still do it? Its only the first day back from main leave, haven't seen or heard much activity today. Also its a stinker of a night/day/week/year so far.
Do people really need help anyway? No ones sat on their roofs here.

YellaRednGrey

When was the last time you saw a Yellow or Grey Seaking mentioned in the media? I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's a negative PR policy so that the great unwashed don't notice when they eventually fade away and are replaced by a civilian option. This is not a whine about civvy SAR and the benefits thereof so lets not start down that route again. I just think would be good for the Mil SAR guys and gals to get just recognition for the fantastic job they do. Once upon a time the ARCC staffs used to brief the media on a daily basis; that stopped some time ago

Wycombe

Is there not a Wokka always on call for "civil emergencies" in north Hants?

If so, I guess someone also needs to decide what constitutes a "civil emergency"?

Hangarshuffle

It might have been good PR, but perhaps the emergency services/utilities coped well enough anyway?

Lima Juliet

7 hours ago in the Plymouth Herald looking for the missing teenager:

Evalu8ter

Wycombe,
Invariably yes - as was the case with Boscastle. However, leave the rescue and winching stuff to the professionals; the Chinook comes into its own if you needed to rebuild flood defences in a hurry or you have a large number of people isolated and in need of evacuation/resupply.

Tiger_mate

I think the Chinook involved in the recovery* of bits and bobs various after the Air India B747 crashed off Eire many years ago proved that they too can hold their own when the need is there.

* All with winch and Crewman & Winch Operator.

MACP = Budget v PR
No fatalities = No problems

You cannot have a PM spouting off about the billions still to be saved, and targeting benefits on the same day that the SH & SAR forces go on tour delivering hampers and straw bales. It is a lose - lose situation.

AGS Man

I was back in UK over the Xmas period and on Friday 3rd there was a fair amount of Helicopter activity in the Taunton area. No idea why but my house was buzzed by a fairly low Sea King with AEW bubble deployed. Not complaining tho!

Evalu8ter

AGS Man,
You can't be far away - the Bagger was over my house too!

TM,
Yes, Chinook crews were involved in Air India. However, the crews used to do a lot more winching training back then (and there were not live people on the line in that incident ) - plus it's not been much of a priority recently. In the FI if a long range SAR job came up we'd plan to take a SAR rearcrew specialist with us. Plus, the Chinook door is not optimised for recovering the winchman/pax - the SK door is far better.

Shackman

Re the Air India crash - yes the 'duty' Chinook was airborne from Odiham two hours after the incident (getting the winch on and overload tanks in took the time), but we weren't the first; an ad hoc crew grabbed from the mess/quarters was off very quickly . However, the greater part of the work was done by the RN and RAF Sea Kings; even the CH 53s with AAR Hercs from Woodbridge appeared on Day 2.

As far as 'Aid to the Civil Community' goes, I have noticed that over the years it has become less and less as the Treasury have turned the screws on those very communities requiring assistance. It seems to need higher and higher approval, and then the community requiring help is charged ever more exorbitant sums (to cover the costs of running the military it seems), Most of the crews would like to be involved, and the aircraft are there, but the arcane rules on costs (after all it is now a budget run system!) seem to prevent it.

sevenscars

I too am disappointed that we haven't utilised the rotary wing assets we have available. I believe it boils down to the way JHC funds the SH fleet. It would appear unless it is for the benefit of the Army then Chinooks aren't utilised. Everyone is incredibly risk averse these days which as Chinook aircrew saddens me.

NutLoose

Of course we wouldn't have half of the flooding problems if developers in the rush to make money didn't build on flood plains, that's the root cause of most of the problems, and whilst I applaud the rush to bolster town flood defences, all that does is shifts it all downstream to become someone elses problem. It's about time the Government looked at making it a requirement if building on a flood plain to produce housing along the lines of the Dutch where the whole house floats up.

How It Works

ninja-lewis

Didn't the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 come about because the MOD was fed up with repeatedly bailing out Other Government Departments and Local Authorities who couldn't be bothered to do their jobs properly because "there's always the MOD"?

Now that the Main Effort is not as busy as in recent past, should the MOD really complain that the rest of government have finally got themselves organised properly?

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

If I remember rightly, Aid to The Civil Authority is provided on request; and charged for. Yer don't get owt fer nowt these days. I think SAR was/is a standalone commitment, as are the Mountain Rescue teams.

Hangarshuffle

Just thinking aloud, what are we talking about? Dropping food off? Bales of hay for shepherds in upland areas? You are talking about roping in entire squadrons and their support staff. Ok down the SW we are top heavy with CU,VLN go on Odiham, Middle Wallop....but elsewhere? SE England etc. There s nothing there to help.
The armed forces now couldn't do it at short notice. The capability isn't really there, or the set up. Training hasn't been made for it (and I mean proper contingencies training for sustained ops, say a 2 month spell of current or worse weather).
Its not the military's problem to sort out anyway.

Wholigan

From the BBC just for interest:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=549462025148945

But please, for goodness sake, nobody point out that the RN has difficulty with knowing its cardinal points. It would be rude and his mates would give him stick!!

Courtney Mil

From my experience with firends in the Rescue Helo world, their reaction to any call out was always, "this is what we're here for. And every rescue is excellent training as well as saving lives." No problem on that front.

But now it may be a matter of managing expectations. When it's civvi, things may be different. For the rescue of civvies and mil folk...

"RAF Marham here. We have a crew that's ejected into the North Sea. We need a rescue helicopter to recover them asap."

"Good evening, Sir. Your call is important to us, please hold while I connect you to the next avaiable operator."

<The first 4 minutes of Motzart's 40th plays> interspersed with promotions for SERCO Rescue Insurance, GlobalNet Personal Location Beacons and the new iPhone QuickDial Recovery System.

"Good evening, SERCO Rescue Services, how may I help you."

"Er, we have two aircrew in the North Sea."

"Thank you, Sir, is that in the Southern, Central or Northern Sector?"

"What are the boundaries"

"All that information is available on our website at www.winchyouout.com."

"I'll give your their position on lat and long."

"I'm sorry, Sir, what did you say?"

"I'll give you their position."

"I need to know which sector they're in."

"I don't know which sector, but I can give you their exact location. We're talking to the crew on the PLBs."

"We don't have that address, Sir. Which sector.."

"Look, I need you to launch a helicopter to rescue them and I can tell you exactly where to go."

"There's no need to take that tone, Sir. What sort of helicopter do you require? Is it for cargo lift, passengers or emergency transfer."

"What? The crew of a Tornado has ejected into the North Sea and we need you to recover them!"

"Oh, I see, Sir. Thank you. Have you pre-notified this operation?"

"What?"

"Did you complete a ER2134 prior to this event?"

"How could I. We didn't know this was going to happen."

"Ah, I see. So you haven't pre-arranged this. Do you have an account with us?"

"How could I have.. Look, I JUST NEED A H E L I C O P T E R."

"Certainly, Sir. What model do you require? You will find a comprehensive list of models available for hire on our website at..."

"A rescue helicopter, NOW!"

"What is you account number."

"I don't know. I am OC Marham and my crew needs to be rescued."

"Sir, if you are not the account holder, I'm afraid I can't discuss this with you. Is the account holder there?"

"They will die if you don't recover them now."

"Sir, SERCO Rescue cannot accept liability for loss of life or personal property in these circumstances."

"Can I have a helicopter or not?"

"We offer a wide range of heli.."

"Sod you. I'll call the Coast Guard."

"Thank you for your call this evening. If we can interest you in any of our other products, plea..."

Romeo Oscar Golf

Very good CM and sadly, I suspect only too true!