Possible 9th C-17 for the RAF?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
If you have N C17 then they cost £X whether they fly or not.
If you need the capacity for less than 100% of the time then you are wasting money. What happens then is the aircraft are taken in to Reserve, ie spares, manpower and fuel are not provisioned.
If you reduce your holding then the cost of ownership will reduce. To then buy in occasional charter to make up for your smaller GOGO fleet then it has the potential to cost less.
Chartering for Herrick is a different ball game as it is effectively a whole-fleet charter rather than an occasional fleet make-up.
On the leasing of C17s, I believe originally it was for a specific period of time and a specific rate of usage, bit like your contract hire car. As Herrick ramped up so did the hours and the overrun leasing charges would have been greater than the option to buy.
If you need the capacity for less than 100% of the time then you are wasting money. What happens then is the aircraft are taken in to Reserve, ie spares, manpower and fuel are not provisioned.
If you reduce your holding then the cost of ownership will reduce. To then buy in occasional charter to make up for your smaller GOGO fleet then it has the potential to cost less.
Chartering for Herrick is a different ball game as it is effectively a whole-fleet charter rather than an occasional fleet make-up.
On the leasing of C17s, I believe originally it was for a specific period of time and a specific rate of usage, bit like your contract hire car. As Herrick ramped up so did the hours and the overrun leasing charges would have been greater than the option to buy.
If there is another C17 on the way, and after Herrick there is the extra capacity some have alluded to, what will happen with it? Has anyone bothered to consider what a multinational command, based in the south of the Netherlands is doing and maybe that the RAF has asperations in that direction....... Just saying.... 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 0
Received 144 Likes
on
28 Posts
I'm not sure who you've been discussing this with, but I respectfully suggest they don't know what they're talking about.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In the Ether
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The question of use vs. cost is down to whichever theory of accounting MoD choose to use this week. One thing that's for certain, however, is that if UK9 is purchased with a total lack of support - eng & crew manning, spares for deployment, tooling etc - (as per UK7&8) then all that we're buying is an extremely expensive spares donor...
The capacity and abilities that it brings to the 'customer' makes it ripe for the future, especially so given uncertainties surrounding A400s development timeline and current issues.
The capacity and abilities that it brings to the 'customer' makes it ripe for the future, especially so given uncertainties surrounding A400s development timeline and current issues.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: by the Great Salt Lake, USA
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by plans 123
If there is another C17 on the way, and after Herrick there is the extra capacity some have alluded to, what will happen with it? Has anyone bothered to consider what a multinational command, based in the south of the Netherlands is doing and maybe that the RAF has asperations in that direction....... Just saying....
Scramble Messageboard ? Information
Hungary: U.S.-NATO Global Strategic Airlift Reaches Full Capability | Stop NATO...Opposition to global militarism
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lyneham
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What issues & uncertainties with the A400? Seems to be ticking along quite nicely to me! Should be on time (this time) if not early.
In terms of stuff the C17 currently does it should be ready to go from day 1.
(On a smaller scale of course!)
In terms of stuff the C17 currently does it should be ready to go from day 1.
(On a smaller scale of course!)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe that the current time line doesn't have A400 doing anything 'useful' until early 2016.
There are issues the FAF 5th aircraft has been rejected and will instead arrive with the RAF ahead of UK 1. The 9G restraint regulation is unproven as the attachment points are rated but Airbus can't answer the cargo bay floor question as the floor is untested.
As with all new aircraft, expect a bumpy road between ISD and IOC.
There are issues the FAF 5th aircraft has been rejected and will instead arrive with the RAF ahead of UK 1. The 9G restraint regulation is unproven as the attachment points are rated but Airbus can't answer the cargo bay floor question as the floor is untested.
As with all new aircraft, expect a bumpy road between ISD and IOC.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
Posts: 1,185
Received 4 Likes
on
2 Posts
There are issues the FAF 5th aircraft has been rejected and will instead arrive with the RAF
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lyneham
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not entirely true Tonksy!
Depends how you define useful but there should be some route work going on at least in 2015.
The ac is at IOC at the mo.
Fortunately for us, the french are doing the painful stuff we had to do on the J with the entry into service and the ac should be more mature at SOC1/1.5 when
we get it delivered. Have faith fella!!
Depends how you define useful but there should be some route work going on at least in 2015.
The ac is at IOC at the mo.
Fortunately for us, the french are doing the painful stuff we had to do on the J with the entry into service and the ac should be more mature at SOC1/1.5 when
we get it delivered. Have faith fella!!
A400M Usefulness
Declaration of interest: yes I used to work for Airbus but I am now retired.
Firstly, the original lease of the 5 C17s came under the STSA (Short Term Strategic Airlift) programme which was, indeed a competition between the An124 and the C17. The An124 was deemed to be non-compliant because it had no defensive aids and, therefore, could not be used in hostile environments (except, of course, when it is being chartered). As STSA was a stopgap it was always meant to be a lease arrangement and it then grew from there.
When the first 3 RAF A400Ms arrive they will be at SOC 1 standard, SOC 1.5 for the next 5 with other standards following. SOC 1 includes tactical capability inc some airdrop, and some defensive aids. SOC 1.5 adds AAR receiving and the rest of AD. National defensive aids are a national problem and all ac will be uprated as subsequent SOCs are cleared on the Airbus Military clearance programme. That said the SOCs are company solutions and contractual obligations but actual release to service is in the gift of the infamous Quintequeue which also needs to clear the specific RAF AD equipment and aircraft combination. If my experience with the J is anything to go by that could take some time. However, do remember who it is actually granting release to service (or whatever it is now called) and it is not Airbus Military.
Firstly, the original lease of the 5 C17s came under the STSA (Short Term Strategic Airlift) programme which was, indeed a competition between the An124 and the C17. The An124 was deemed to be non-compliant because it had no defensive aids and, therefore, could not be used in hostile environments (except, of course, when it is being chartered). As STSA was a stopgap it was always meant to be a lease arrangement and it then grew from there.
When the first 3 RAF A400Ms arrive they will be at SOC 1 standard, SOC 1.5 for the next 5 with other standards following. SOC 1 includes tactical capability inc some airdrop, and some defensive aids. SOC 1.5 adds AAR receiving and the rest of AD. National defensive aids are a national problem and all ac will be uprated as subsequent SOCs are cleared on the Airbus Military clearance programme. That said the SOCs are company solutions and contractual obligations but actual release to service is in the gift of the infamous Quintequeue which also needs to clear the specific RAF AD equipment and aircraft combination. If my experience with the J is anything to go by that could take some time. However, do remember who it is actually granting release to service (or whatever it is now called) and it is not Airbus Military.
