SR-71 replacement
Perhaps Harry might know of her.
!
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SR-72 implications for future airpower
Hi all,
Like you I've been very interested in the details of the SR-72 project that have emerged...
I'd be interested to know what you all make of the implications I've tried to read into the SR-72 announcement in this article for a defence think-tank?
RUSI - Speed is the New Stealth: The SR-72 Challenges the Future at Mach 6
Looking forward to your comments!
Justin
Like you I've been very interested in the details of the SR-72 project that have emerged...
I'd be interested to know what you all make of the implications I've tried to read into the SR-72 announcement in this article for a defence think-tank?
RUSI - Speed is the New Stealth: The SR-72 Challenges the Future at Mach 6
Looking forward to your comments!
Justin
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South East England
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Radar evading stealth is partly a myth and technology exists to beat it to a large degree now.
However physics is physics and a very high very fast target takes a huge amount of reaching. Even simple manoeuvres by the target are difficult to counter.
SR 72 looks to be an unpiloted, cheaper and less complicated son of the Aurora black project, which had a relatively short service life. Probably due to technical or budgetary problems.
Control technology has come as far as the X 45, where the vehicle is autonomous. It is not "flown" from the ground, just told what its mission is. This is ideal for high speed, high altitude reconnaissance.
However physics is physics and a very high very fast target takes a huge amount of reaching. Even simple manoeuvres by the target are difficult to counter.
SR 72 looks to be an unpiloted, cheaper and less complicated son of the Aurora black project, which had a relatively short service life. Probably due to technical or budgetary problems.
Control technology has come as far as the X 45, where the vehicle is autonomous. It is not "flown" from the ground, just told what its mission is. This is ideal for high speed, high altitude reconnaissance.
Thread Starter
Call me a skeptic, but I'm not going to place much on one graphic, quite possibly a marketing scheme to determine complexity and price. There's likely forensic accountants out there trying to determine the facts with a whole lot more than a press release.
Originally Posted by chopper2004
The sighting by Gibson over the North Sea (coinciding with the Leuchars SATCO curious about the extremely fast mover from Machrihanish area, told to mind his own business and ignore the blip earlier in the year or year before)
marks up a few question marks.....I agree the F-111C pair is a bit odd, (could be the Lakenheath and the then Upper Heyford lot and logic dictates it be the Wing CO if not the base commanders flying) . Unless they came from the Test Force at Edwards...
Could hazard a guess that the KC-135 in the description, be a Q model with JP-7 refueling the Aurora again from the then 9th Det 4 from the 'Hall (or had they and the SR-71 pair gone by 1990?)
marks up a few question marks.....I agree the F-111C pair is a bit odd, (could be the Lakenheath and the then Upper Heyford lot and logic dictates it be the Wing CO if not the base commanders flying) . Unless they came from the Test Force at Edwards...
Could hazard a guess that the KC-135 in the description, be a Q model with JP-7 refueling the Aurora again from the then 9th Det 4 from the 'Hall (or had they and the SR-71 pair gone by 1990?)
Last SR-71 mission from the 'hall was in late Nov '89, with the last a/c departing UK in early Jan '90.
Amid SR-72 Rumors, Skunk Works Ramps Up Hypersonics | Defense content from Aviation Week
skunk Works is believed to be planning the start of FRV development next year, with first flight targeted for 2020. The FRV will be around the same size as an F-22 and powered by a full-scale, combined-cycle engine. However, in the run-up to the demonstrator development, Lockheed is thought to be testing several discrete technologies in a series of ground and flight tests.
According to information provided to Aviation Week, one such technology demonstrator, believed to be an unmanned subscale aircraft, was observed flying into the U.S. Air Force’s Plant 42 at Palmdale, where Skunk Works is headquartered. The vehicle, which was noted landing in the early hours at an unspecified date in late July, was seen with two T-38 escorts. Lockheed Martin declined to comment directly on the sighting".
skunk Works is believed to be planning the start of FRV development next year, with first flight targeted for 2020. The FRV will be around the same size as an F-22 and powered by a full-scale, combined-cycle engine. However, in the run-up to the demonstrator development, Lockheed is thought to be testing several discrete technologies in a series of ground and flight tests.
According to information provided to Aviation Week, one such technology demonstrator, believed to be an unmanned subscale aircraft, was observed flying into the U.S. Air Force’s Plant 42 at Palmdale, where Skunk Works is headquartered. The vehicle, which was noted landing in the early hours at an unspecified date in late July, was seen with two T-38 escorts. Lockheed Martin declined to comment directly on the sighting".
This is fascinating - can't wait to see it in the flesh.
Now come on Marillyn - unmanned just isn't cool - there's got to be room enough up the front for at least one guy or gal in a yellow David Clark suit...?!
Now come on Marillyn - unmanned just isn't cool - there's got to be room enough up the front for at least one guy or gal in a yellow David Clark suit...?!
From the comments at chopper2004's link
A lot of high tech jobs.
The SR-71 was used over contested airspaces, with an estimated 3000 missiles fired at it. This ought to suggest that early Russian radar systems could see the plane, but the missiles could not catch it. Russian systems now in place would not have any such problems, which is the ultimate reason for the retirement
DARPA signs a contract with Reaction Engines to evaluate the precooler technology of the SABRE engine, including building 'a high-temperature airflow evaluation facility', and Skunk Works hints at Mach 5+ SR-72.
Add in that AFRL validated the concept two years ago and what comes to mind?
Add in that AFRL validated the concept two years ago and what comes to mind?
Salute!
I do not agree with Eclectic's assertion that "stealth" can be easily defeated. Remember, it's not that you have the "Romulan" cloaking device and remain 100% invisible until bomb release. You just have to make it really hard for the other side to detect you in time to do anything about it. Ask the 4th gen folks at the last two Red Flag exercises. The SR-71 missions flown in the 70's and 80's reflect this aspect of the engagements.
In my personal experience, our unit (18th FIS at Grand Forks) fired Genie rockets at M3+ Bomarc missiles back in the 60's, and despite a decent Bomarc RCS, only a slight change in course by the Bomarc ruined out intercept. Computers are much better now, however you still have to detect the target in time to get a good solution by your fire control system, not the long range stuff that tells you about where to go and serach, but not exactly.
I later flew down a chaff corridor over Hanoi in 1972 and the bad guys did not lock us up until we were coming down the chute and released our bombs.
The latest avionics are cosmic, but the final decision to engage or whatever is still relegated to a human being. So human factors and tactics and such come into play.
Gums opines....
I do not agree with Eclectic's assertion that "stealth" can be easily defeated. Remember, it's not that you have the "Romulan" cloaking device and remain 100% invisible until bomb release. You just have to make it really hard for the other side to detect you in time to do anything about it. Ask the 4th gen folks at the last two Red Flag exercises. The SR-71 missions flown in the 70's and 80's reflect this aspect of the engagements.
In my personal experience, our unit (18th FIS at Grand Forks) fired Genie rockets at M3+ Bomarc missiles back in the 60's, and despite a decent Bomarc RCS, only a slight change in course by the Bomarc ruined out intercept. Computers are much better now, however you still have to detect the target in time to get a good solution by your fire control system, not the long range stuff that tells you about where to go and serach, but not exactly.
I later flew down a chaff corridor over Hanoi in 1972 and the bad guys did not lock us up until we were coming down the chute and released our bombs.
The latest avionics are cosmic, but the final decision to engage or whatever is still relegated to a human being. So human factors and tactics and such come into play.
Gums opines....
I once read somewhere and trying to think where - that to support the main Lockheed Skunk works David Clark company set up their own in the back of a department store to help with some suits or similar safety equipment.
I’m probably misquoting but those details stuck in my head- can anyone shed any light?
Either way shows what small focussed groups can do.
I’m probably misquoting but those details stuck in my head- can anyone shed any light?
Either way shows what small focussed groups can do.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stockport MAN/EGCC
Age: 70
Posts: 991
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Here is a link to the "Boscombe Down Incident"
RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day
I think we may be confusing two aircraft -:
1) SR-71 - Aurora - Replacement aircraft High and Fast
2) TR-3 (?) Tac. recon. aircraft possibly developed from YF-23 which was more stealthy than F-22 but more expensive too.
Weren't some of the F-117 guys in the gulf seen wearing team stealth patches with two aircraft silhouettes ?
Aurora was probably unsuccessful long term, the examination of funding shows something very expensive in the right time frame, lets not forget the SR71 looked at a lot of places not just USSR.
Be lucky
David
RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day
I think we may be confusing two aircraft -:
1) SR-71 - Aurora - Replacement aircraft High and Fast
2) TR-3 (?) Tac. recon. aircraft possibly developed from YF-23 which was more stealthy than F-22 but more expensive too.
Weren't some of the F-117 guys in the gulf seen wearing team stealth patches with two aircraft silhouettes ?
Aurora was probably unsuccessful long term, the examination of funding shows something very expensive in the right time frame, lets not forget the SR71 looked at a lot of places not just USSR.
Be lucky
David
Last edited by The AvgasDinosaur; 3rd Oct 2017 at 19:56.
I once read somewhere and trying to think where - that to support the main Lockheed Skunk works David Clark company set up their own in the back of a department store to help with some suits or similar safety equipment.
I’m probably misquoting but those details stuck in my head- can anyone shed any light?
Either way shows what small focussed groups can do.
I’m probably misquoting but those details stuck in my head- can anyone shed any light?
Either way shows what small focussed groups can do.
The David Clark Company was the go to source for early US pressure suits, and still is a leader today. Your memory of department stores may stem from the fact that the company was also a leader of woman's undergarments, so had good knowledge of tight fitting garments, support etc. Getting into a tight girdle may have some similarities to cinching up a pressure suit
There are stories of early U2, A-11, SR-71 crews quietly going to a rear entrance at the David Clark company HQ in Massachusetts for fittings as each pressure suit was custom made. Those era suits were quite similar to the Mercury space suits.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SOUTH WEST
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who knows, perhaps the reasoning of sat coverage as a reason for the SR-71's retirement was a bit of disinformation.[/QUOTE]
I seem to remember a few years back that the reason the Blackbird was kept In service was that it was faster to get the asset over any location than re tasking a satellite for the job, seems a fair point and if it's gone what replaced it ?
I seem to remember a few years back that the reason the Blackbird was kept In service was that it was faster to get the asset over any location than re tasking a satellite for the job, seems a fair point and if it's gone what replaced it ?
scaled down test prototype Flying
Happy New Year all
Apparently there has been a scaled down tech demonstrator sighted ...amongst Palmdale..
https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/1...sonic-program/
Btw I picked this up from Greatest Planes That Never Were FB group -before anyone suggests I read the Fail ..it’s laughable calling the SR-72 a ‘bomber’ ☠️😝🤣🧐
SR-72 hypersonic bomber 'has already been made' | Daily Mail Online
Apparently there has been a scaled down tech demonstrator sighted ...amongst Palmdale..
https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/1...sonic-program/
Btw I picked this up from Greatest Planes That Never Were FB group -before anyone suggests I read the Fail ..it’s laughable calling the SR-72 a ‘bomber’ ☠️😝🤣🧐
SR-72 hypersonic bomber 'has already been made' | Daily Mail Online
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: South Skerry
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a lot to read into one speaker's choice of tense. The public record is that LM and its main partner have been fishing for tech demonstration money for a while, and have found some.
DARPA Awards Aerojet Rocketdyne Contract to Develop Hypersonic Advanced Full Range Engine | Aerojet Rocketdyne
Not to say that there haven't been precursor programs, but that seems to be the story on "SR-72".
DARPA Awards Aerojet Rocketdyne Contract to Develop Hypersonic Advanced Full Range Engine | Aerojet Rocketdyne
Not to say that there haven't been precursor programs, but that seems to be the story on "SR-72".
Boscombe Down Black Day
What a load of nonsense. It’s history now but the link to Boscombe Down’s Black Day doesn’t belong on here. Apply Occam's Razor and you’ll probably come up with the correct answer.