Unwelcome visitors
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Unwelcome visitors
With this punishment as a deterrent, can we expect a few more ‘Visitors’ jumping our fences ?
Anti-drones protesters' lenient sentence is 'invitation' to activists | UK news | theguardian.com
So 6 people cut through a fence at an RAF base and are ordered to pay the RAF £10 in compensation!?!?!
Will the judge explain what he considers good crime and what he considers bad crime?
Breaking in to any government facility that requires live-armed guards should not be treated so lightly. We need a way to separate the 'good people' and the 'bad people' and the fence line helps to delineate that. The courts should urgently consider the risk they are now exposing people to when they indicate through judgements such as this that the fence now means nothing.
Anyway, I'm off to park my car at Heathrow, just by the aircraft on the stand. It will save me loads of time and the fine is a hell of a lot less than the normal parking fees.
Will the judge explain what he considers good crime and what he considers bad crime?
Breaking in to any government facility that requires live-armed guards should not be treated so lightly. We need a way to separate the 'good people' and the 'bad people' and the fence line helps to delineate that. The courts should urgently consider the risk they are now exposing people to when they indicate through judgements such as this that the fence now means nothing.
Anyway, I'm off to park my car at Heathrow, just by the aircraft on the stand. It will save me loads of time and the fine is a hell of a lot less than the normal parking fees.
When I read the article (and a previous one that reported the conviction but not the sentence) I thought that perhaps the CPS/MOD should appeal and go after the judge as being unduly lenient. My personal opinion of a large section of the UK's judiciary has been decreasing over recent years and I'm sure I'm not alone. When you start to think that your judiciary are an irrelevance then that is a slippery slope for the whole moral fabric of the nation. This one needs to keep his personal opinions out of the courtroom.
I'm not mil but if the soap dodgers had tried that when I worked for the Yanks at Upper Heyford (f1-11 s) they would have been shot.
Protesters break into RAF base | UK news | theguardian.com
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Personally I don't know what all the fuss is about - hardly a crack team of Spetznaz is it...?!!
How many other nations use drones in this manner? Is it just us and US?
How many other nations use drones in this manner? Is it just us and US?
walked around inside for 45-60 minutes, handing out leaflets
Last edited by Wrathmonk; 14th Oct 2013 at 15:07.
They were spotted immediately and challenged in accordance with current procedures. When the cuts through the fence were identified the civilian police were called as this was regarded as criminal damage. The civilian police arrested them and drove them away. Only in fantasy land were they wondering around giving leaflets to random service people.
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I think some RAF heads should roll here. Security was clearly poor, as there is a known protest at this base, so this should have been foreseen. Only a naive person would think that 'baddies' do not get involved in protests anymore. If I were a terrorist I'd be 'glamming up' in my best tree hugger baggy jumper.......
With enough room under it for an AK or some explosives.
Of course, I can't claim to have invented this idea. Some nasty fellows have already done something like this at a weakly secured part of a base, but that cost the USMC rather more than just embarrassment.
With enough room under it for an AK or some explosives.
Of course, I can't claim to have invented this idea. Some nasty fellows have already done something like this at a weakly secured part of a base, but that cost the USMC rather more than just embarrassment.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
The answer is a loaded gun. Years ago, I had to divert a Wessex into a USAF base because of a snowstorm (engine icing). I was met by a very large, very black American MP. When the storm cleared I was about to set off again. However, the remark "you're going nowhere Bub", and a hand resting on a very large pistol changed my mind. It took a couple of hours to sort everything out.
"Peace and reconciliation" sounds fine, if we can get the Taliban and al Quada to sign up for it.
"Peace and reconciliation" sounds fine, if we can get the Taliban and al Quada to sign up for it.
I don't condone what these people have done - but I am sympathetic to their protest. I think that the use of armed drones undermines the status and virtues of military service. If I read about a successful UK manned operation I always feel a sense of admiration for those involved, and a sense of pride that I was once part of that service. Whenever I read about a successful drone operation, I feel no sense of pride or admiration at all - indeed the contrary. I fear that over use of armed drones will in the long term erode the public's regard for our military services.
This is worth a read:
The end of courage? How drones are undermining military virtue ? Opinion ? ABC Religion & Ethics (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
This is worth a read:
The end of courage? How drones are undermining military virtue ? Opinion ? ABC Religion & Ethics (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
I think some RAF heads should roll here. Security was clearly poor, as there is a known protest at this base, so this should have been foreseen.
Security is not the issue here, only the judicial response after the security, police and CPS did their bit.
4rock wrote:
Perhaps you could tell us what a crack team of Spetnaz looks like. Do they look like a murderer/child molester/drug dealer/TV license dodger/french onion seller....? If, as your nom-de-pprune suggests, you are a member/ex-member of TG8, you will have surely heard of recces/dry runs/sleepers?
Personally I don't know what all the fuss is about - hardly a crack team of Spetznaz is it...?!!
Superq7,
Would they have been shot?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/op...perheyford.pdf
Would they have been shot?
Title: Unauthorized Entry/Vandalism to an F-111E at RAF Upper Heyford, UK
5. Observation: At approximately 0330 hours, 21 March 1990, two British males illegally entered RAF Upper Heyford and damaged an F-111E aircraft (approximately $550,000) which was parked on a hardstand inside a restricted area. These members of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND) approached the base perimeter, cut a hole in the perimeter fence at a remote location, and surreptitiously entered the restricted area. They ran up to an F-111E parked in front of Hardened Aircraft Shelter (HAS) 39, where one of the subjects climbed into the cockpit and with a hammer in each hand, began striking the inside of the cockpit. The individual on the ground attached antiwar signs to the aircraft. This individual then produced a hammer and began striking the wingtip fuel tank. The alarm response team (ART), located approximately 150 meters away, responded to the scene, challenged the two subjects, and placed them under apprehension. The two subjects were turned over to Ministry of Defense (MOD) police. This was a marked departure from previous nonviolent Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND) activities
5. Observation: At approximately 0330 hours, 21 March 1990, two British males illegally entered RAF Upper Heyford and damaged an F-111E aircraft (approximately $550,000) which was parked on a hardstand inside a restricted area. These members of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND) approached the base perimeter, cut a hole in the perimeter fence at a remote location, and surreptitiously entered the restricted area. They ran up to an F-111E parked in front of Hardened Aircraft Shelter (HAS) 39, where one of the subjects climbed into the cockpit and with a hammer in each hand, began striking the inside of the cockpit. The individual on the ground attached antiwar signs to the aircraft. This individual then produced a hammer and began striking the wingtip fuel tank. The alarm response team (ART), located approximately 150 meters away, responded to the scene, challenged the two subjects, and placed them under apprehension. The two subjects were turned over to Ministry of Defense (MOD) police. This was a marked departure from previous nonviolent Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND) activities
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How many other nations use drones in this manner? Is it just us and US?
I think that the use of armed drones undermines the status and virtues of military service.
We are our own worse enemies when it comes to publicising these systems. The word "Drone" has connotations and why on earth did we stick with the American name of "Reaper" which implies that it is there to assassinate! We also readily show on TV the steady pictures as a manned aircraft launches a LGB without showing the difficulties of the crew who have to make very fast judgement decisions about release (unlike the RPAS where every man and his dog can see and assess the picture before weapon release) and of course, our latest manned ground attack aircraft is single seat! Everyone remembers John Peters and John Nichol from the GW - sadly, in this conflict the pictures would be of the public beheadings on Al Jazirah TV.
The RPAs is basically a flying CCTV camera with its own police enforcement attached. It has long loiter and can be placed into harms way as an adjunct to putting our own troops into an area. By saving weight and size by being remotely piloted (no seats/emergency kit/oxygen/toilets/galley etc) it can carry out a much more successful anti-insurgent mission. At the end of the day, the important issue is to make the area safe for our ground troops - the RPAS method is an excellent method of achieving this.
Trim Stab
OK, I'll bite. Having been in several campaigns in the air and one on the ground, there is no virtue in having to do your country's dirty work - manned or unmanned. You Sir, need to go back to reading your Warlord comic or Battle weekly! 
LJ
PS. Wensleydale, well said.
I think that the use of armed drones undermines the status and virtues of military service. If I read about a successful UK manned operation I always feel a sense of admiration for those involved, and a sense of pride that I was once part of that service. Whenever I read about a successful drone operation, I feel no sense of pride or admiration at all - indeed the contrary.
LJ
PS. Wensleydale, well said.
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 14th Oct 2013 at 18:27.
Wrathmonk wrote
I think that the journalist got the story incorrect in regards to the leaflets? The protesters were attaching leaflets to buildings.
Some of the images were posted on social media
Handing out leaflets would suggest they were 'engaging' with people inside the wire.
Some of the images were posted on social media