One of your adversaries is missing...(merged)
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HJ
Keep it coming. I'm sure many on here enjoy your posts and it's good to hear from the 'other' side, particularly with regard to Vietnam.
Lord knows, the US side is well represented....and quite vocal.
Keep it coming. I'm sure many on here enjoy your posts and it's good to hear from the 'other' side, particularly with regard to Vietnam.
Lord knows, the US side is well represented....and quite vocal.
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HJ
Get your a...s back here NOW....!!!
I love a fight - either real or in the ether - and you my friend were putting up one hell of a (one-side!) scrap. This forum needs a few 'characters' and I for one don't want to see you fall on your own sword!
Show us a sign................
Get your a...s back here NOW....!!!
I love a fight - either real or in the ether - and you my friend were putting up one hell of a (one-side!) scrap. This forum needs a few 'characters' and I for one don't want to see you fall on your own sword!
Show us a sign................
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Good grief...
It's interesting, the high esteem some of these lefties hold themselves in, when they cannot even get the simple things right. Our Jane is happy to push this article forth, one that has John McCain hiding in the "break room" of the "USS Forestall," when he was out there on the flight deck of the USS Forrestal. Is it being a grumpy old man, or just some sort of amateur historian, to find such childish errors rather grating, especially given the prating tone of the whole article?
McCain was "spoiled"? Well, find out how he got that way and spoil a few more children in the same way; he seemed to hold up pretty well under mistreatment as a POW!
I found that McCain wrote a rather gracious obit for the late General Giap, when he might as well have expanded a bit on such aspects of Giap's career as the planning for the disastrous Tet Offensive, the North Vietnamese counting on that popular uprising that never happened. A fire on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier comes off as a weenie roast gone wrong compared to the Tet Offensive, if anyone cares to keep score in that way.
I love that closing quote from Giap, the one about facing inevitable failure for the imposition of one's will on "other nations." Nothing at all in that to do with the Communists of North Viet Nam going to war with whatever the government of South Viet Nam was, then? Noo, of course not; that was simply "reunification," and woe betide those not of the Communist persuasion who have missed that simple fact!
Jane, old bean, if you really, really understood "irony" in the way that you obviously think that you do, then you might not have posted that article. As it is, I see you fitted with the usual leftist blinkers, there. You are no ironist at all, someone posing as ignorant; you are just another lefty who's genuinely ignorant, albeit one with a rather spectacular ability to annoy.
If the quality of Jane's prose and thought matches his self-assessment of it, then he must have been in the running for that Nobel Prize for literature, just narrowly beaten by Alice Munro. Well, better luck next time!
McCain was "spoiled"? Well, find out how he got that way and spoil a few more children in the same way; he seemed to hold up pretty well under mistreatment as a POW!
I found that McCain wrote a rather gracious obit for the late General Giap, when he might as well have expanded a bit on such aspects of Giap's career as the planning for the disastrous Tet Offensive, the North Vietnamese counting on that popular uprising that never happened. A fire on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier comes off as a weenie roast gone wrong compared to the Tet Offensive, if anyone cares to keep score in that way.
I love that closing quote from Giap, the one about facing inevitable failure for the imposition of one's will on "other nations." Nothing at all in that to do with the Communists of North Viet Nam going to war with whatever the government of South Viet Nam was, then? Noo, of course not; that was simply "reunification," and woe betide those not of the Communist persuasion who have missed that simple fact!
Jane, old bean, if you really, really understood "irony" in the way that you obviously think that you do, then you might not have posted that article. As it is, I see you fitted with the usual leftist blinkers, there. You are no ironist at all, someone posing as ignorant; you are just another lefty who's genuinely ignorant, albeit one with a rather spectacular ability to annoy.
If the quality of Jane's prose and thought matches his self-assessment of it, then he must have been in the running for that Nobel Prize for literature, just narrowly beaten by Alice Munro. Well, better luck next time!
Last edited by chuks; 14th Oct 2013 at 13:29.
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Not that I know of but when I looked at his Wiki page,
I noticed this book was referenced plenty of times so
that might be a good start.
Macdonald, Peter (1993). Giap: The Victor in Vietnam. Fourth Estate.
ISBN 1 85702 107 X.
I noticed this book was referenced plenty of times so
that might be a good start.
Macdonald, Peter (1993). Giap: The Victor in Vietnam. Fourth Estate.
ISBN 1 85702 107 X.
Quote:
Wholigan:
I'm not debating with you either
Quote:
Finally, Wholigan, I think you need to remember
Oh dear, and now lecturing one of the more amenable moderators on the forum.
Wholigan:
I'm not debating with you either
Quote:
Finally, Wholigan, I think you need to remember
Oh dear, and now lecturing one of the more amenable moderators on the forum.
To be fair, it was Wholigan who was doing the lecturing. HJ was just fighting his corner...
Oh well... Việc người thì sáng, việc mình thi quang
Fair enough Roland, but I guess it comes down to how you interpret "the rules". As evidenced by a great many responses in support of HJ, it would appear that Wholigan may have confused "ridicule and deliberate provocation" with irreverance and humour.
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500N
Ta again.
I shall send off for that book.
It won't arrive here soon enough for Lou to read it though.
I'm amazed Giaps' biography cannot be found (unless perhaps in Vietnamese?) on the web.
I wonder why?
Ta again.
I shall send off for that book.
It won't arrive here soon enough for Lou to read it though.
I'm amazed Giaps' biography cannot be found (unless perhaps in Vietnamese?) on the web.
I wonder why?
it would appear that Wholigan may have confused "ridicule and deliberate provocation" with irreverance and humour.
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Golly, people are being nice. I feel all teary-eyed :-)
but I'd rather you stayed and acted within the forum rules, because - as you say - you have views that are opposed to those held by a lot of people in here and it is healthy to have the differences aired
Hmmm, does writing in colour imply authority? If so, I shall write in colour too.
You seem to dance between accepting that someone with a different perspective is going to have a different approach towards discussion - and defending his views, which will be necessary - and wanting to arbitrarily impose a set of rules which are, at best, open to interpretation and at worst offer the opportunity to stifle any debate with which you disagree.
Wholigan, until I clearly breach your rules I suggest you offer me the flexibility to post as I wish and discuss as I see fit. If I breach the rules it will be apparent to all, and a ban will be fully deserved. If I skirt around the boundaries, that's my business, not yours. You come into play when I cross them, and only then.
It's been nice having this chat with you. I hope we've both learnt something, though you do need to brush up on your translation of Vietnamese expressions :-)
but I'd rather you stayed and acted within the forum rules, because - as you say - you have views that are opposed to those held by a lot of people in here and it is healthy to have the differences aired
Hmmm, does writing in colour imply authority? If so, I shall write in colour too.
You seem to dance between accepting that someone with a different perspective is going to have a different approach towards discussion - and defending his views, which will be necessary - and wanting to arbitrarily impose a set of rules which are, at best, open to interpretation and at worst offer the opportunity to stifle any debate with which you disagree.
Wholigan, until I clearly breach your rules I suggest you offer me the flexibility to post as I wish and discuss as I see fit. If I breach the rules it will be apparent to all, and a ban will be fully deserved. If I skirt around the boundaries, that's my business, not yours. You come into play when I cross them, and only then.
It's been nice having this chat with you. I hope we've both learnt something, though you do need to brush up on your translation of Vietnamese expressions :-)
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It wasn't a self-imposed exile, I assumed I'd be banned for having the temerity to reply to a moderator. It could still happen...
I was sorely tempted to post my entire military history just to keep West-thingy happy, but the thought of the ass-kicking I'd get from my betters outweighed the happiness I'd feel from tweaking his nose. Perhaps one day?
Anyway, where were we before that moderator fellow interrupted my line of thought? Oh yes, we were discussing, in a round-about way, the political system in VN.
Dear comrades, the Vietnamese are the LEAST communist people you are ever likely to encounter. We worship the dollar. And gold. Nothing else. Private enterprise is everywhere. Profit is our religion, personal wealth our dream. The political system is an irrelevance, ignored by most, bribed as required.
I suspect there are one or two souls in Ha Noi who may disagree with me, but my best friend (who vividly remembers watching the Arc Light raids from his rooftop as a child) considers his mission in life to be the acquisition of everything Apple have ever produced, plus a cool BMW SUV to drive around in. He's pretty typical of the new Vietnamese. A communist country stuck in a totalitarian past? Don't make me laugh!
Asia Faces Forwards. This is our century, and we have no intention of letting our past success or failures define us. Trying to define us by repeating your war stories on here does you no credit. Your pain is your own. Let it go, huh?
I was sorely tempted to post my entire military history just to keep West-thingy happy, but the thought of the ass-kicking I'd get from my betters outweighed the happiness I'd feel from tweaking his nose. Perhaps one day?
Anyway, where were we before that moderator fellow interrupted my line of thought? Oh yes, we were discussing, in a round-about way, the political system in VN.
Dear comrades, the Vietnamese are the LEAST communist people you are ever likely to encounter. We worship the dollar. And gold. Nothing else. Private enterprise is everywhere. Profit is our religion, personal wealth our dream. The political system is an irrelevance, ignored by most, bribed as required.
I suspect there are one or two souls in Ha Noi who may disagree with me, but my best friend (who vividly remembers watching the Arc Light raids from his rooftop as a child) considers his mission in life to be the acquisition of everything Apple have ever produced, plus a cool BMW SUV to drive around in. He's pretty typical of the new Vietnamese. A communist country stuck in a totalitarian past? Don't make me laugh!
Asia Faces Forwards. This is our century, and we have no intention of letting our past success or failures define us. Trying to define us by repeating your war stories on here does you no credit. Your pain is your own. Let it go, huh?
Given the dogma you purport, I would think you should be promoting relations with the US.
Or is the US simply too evil? Except in your paycheck of course.
Or is the US simply too evil? Except in your paycheck of course.
Dear comrades, the Vietnamese are the LEAST communist people you are ever likely to encounter. We worship the dollar. And gold. Nothing else. Private enterprise is everywhere. Profit is our religion, personal wealth our dream. The political system is an irrelevance, ignored by most, bribed as required.
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Well, to be fair, that about sums up the UK and USA too! Just that we invent all sorts of 'rules' to make it 'legal' to dodge the taxman and screw the poor...
Show me a household in the UK that DOESN'T covet shiny things...
As for the thread, Giap was an impressive general.. Nothing wrong with pulling up a sandbag and recounting some old stories though - its what defines us all and I'm sure he would have done the same. So, HJ, no need to belittle people for what they did - you'll be old one day too!
Anyway, this must be the longest thread that's crept without anyone mentioning a Nimrod...
Show me a household in the UK that DOESN'T covet shiny things...
As for the thread, Giap was an impressive general.. Nothing wrong with pulling up a sandbag and recounting some old stories though - its what defines us all and I'm sure he would have done the same. So, HJ, no need to belittle people for what they did - you'll be old one day too!
Anyway, this must be the longest thread that's crept without anyone mentioning a Nimrod...
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Greed, corruption, and...
Those who fought the war on the North Vietnamese side have been pushed aside, left undervalued and largely ignored by this new generation of narcissist greedheads, as exemplified by this "Jane" figure. (Even if he/she is exaggerating his/her persona here, we are still dealing with a Weltanschauung that's obviously defective. Sorry to lapse into another language, but I have no idea how to phrase that in either Vietnamese or English. Perhaps one of our alert correspondents can help with this.)
Well, I suppose anyone with any brains to speak of must find it almost impossible to square the ideology of Karl Marx with whatever passes for a system of government in today's Viet Nam, so that a retreat into simple greed and corruption must make a certain amount of sense. That would assume a measure of brains, not self-respect or a spine. Yes, you running-dogs, take the money, keep your mouth shut, and write such crap as that bitchy little essay on John McCain, and you shall get along just fine. Or, if you fall victim to the predatory regime you serve, you shall not be greatly missed.
Damaged as our western democracies are, we are still streets ahead of China, Viet Nam, Russia and Cuba. Hopscotch all over the map in that way, one is still looking at various dysfunctional, rather inhuman systems, all the product of warped belief in what Marx once envisioned.
As my Marxist sociology prof recently said, "There is no system today that calls itself Marxist that is true to the ideals of Karl Marx!" to which I could only add, "Amen, Comrade!"
Well, I suppose anyone with any brains to speak of must find it almost impossible to square the ideology of Karl Marx with whatever passes for a system of government in today's Viet Nam, so that a retreat into simple greed and corruption must make a certain amount of sense. That would assume a measure of brains, not self-respect or a spine. Yes, you running-dogs, take the money, keep your mouth shut, and write such crap as that bitchy little essay on John McCain, and you shall get along just fine. Or, if you fall victim to the predatory regime you serve, you shall not be greatly missed.
Damaged as our western democracies are, we are still streets ahead of China, Viet Nam, Russia and Cuba. Hopscotch all over the map in that way, one is still looking at various dysfunctional, rather inhuman systems, all the product of warped belief in what Marx once envisioned.
As my Marxist sociology prof recently said, "There is no system today that calls itself Marxist that is true to the ideals of Karl Marx!" to which I could only add, "Amen, Comrade!"
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West-thingy:
I do. It's part of my job. (Promoting the relationship, that is.)
Chuks:
You really did make me laugh with your comments, not because they were silly but because they're absolutely correct. Your first two paragraphs are as accurate an assessment of present-day Viet Nam (et moi) as I've ever come across. Suddenly I like you. Please, will you be my internet lover?
Thunderbirds-are-go:
Why do you weep about the Nimrod? Do you miss spending day after day chasing naughty Spanish fishing boats?
I do. It's part of my job. (Promoting the relationship, that is.)
Chuks:
You really did make me laugh with your comments, not because they were silly but because they're absolutely correct. Your first two paragraphs are as accurate an assessment of present-day Viet Nam (et moi) as I've ever come across. Suddenly I like you. Please, will you be my internet lover?
Thunderbirds-are-go:
Why do you weep about the Nimrod? Do you miss spending day after day chasing naughty Spanish fishing boats?
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Greed and corruption. What an appalling way of life...
Yes. True.
Corruption in the UK
Mrs Thatcher implanted the gene of greed in Britain - Comment - Voices - The Independent
Yes. True.
Corruption in the UK
Mrs Thatcher implanted the gene of greed in Britain - Comment - Voices - The Independent