Two Generals now looking for employment.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[The British are responsible for guarding Bastion, which is ringed by a chain-link fence, triple coils of razor wire and watchtowers from which sentries can scan the horizon for any potential attackers. British commanders had assigned the task of manning the towers to troops from Tonga, which has sent 55 soldiers to Afghanistan.
On the night of the attack, the Tongans left unmanned the watchtower nearest to the Taliban breach, according to an investigation by the U.S. Central Command.
Other aspects of the U.S.-British security plan were “sub-optimal,” the investigation found, with no single officer in charge of security for both Bastion and Leatherneck. The security arrangement created command-and-control relationships “contrary to the war-fighting principles of simplicity,” Amos wrote in a memo accepting the investigation.
On the night of the attack, the Tongans left unmanned the watchtower nearest to the Taliban breach, according to an investigation by the U.S. Central Command.
Other aspects of the U.S.-British security plan were “sub-optimal,” the investigation found, with no single officer in charge of security for both Bastion and Leatherneck. The security arrangement created command-and-control relationships “contrary to the war-fighting principles of simplicity,” Amos wrote in a memo accepting the investigation.
During the height of the troubles in the mid 70's the watch tower at the Ulster Radar Operations base at Killard Point was manned by RAF Regiment gunners, and the gate was controlled by RAF Police.
At night, the tower was abandoned and the sole perimeter guard was an RAF dog handler and his pooch.
Maybe they thought the local boyos were scared of the dark
At night, the tower was abandoned and the sole perimeter guard was an RAF dog handler and his pooch.
Maybe they thought the local boyos were scared of the dark
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doesn't make it right.
I wonder how many lower down got kicked as well.
I was reading about the attack, they said 12 minutes for the RAF Regt
to arrive. Not bad going.
I wonder how many lower down got kicked as well.
I was reading about the attack, they said 12 minutes for the RAF Regt
to arrive. Not bad going.
Last edited by 500N; 1st Oct 2013 at 06:30.
So what happened to the RAF 1-Star who was in-charge of the base?
Amos has made accountability a hallmark of his tenure at the top of the corps and said that the command is a "sacred responsibility."
Gurganus, who has commanded American Marines in Haiti, Iraq and Afghanistan, released a statement Monday in which he said he respected the commandant's decision.
"It has been an honor and a privilege to serve beside and lead Marines for over 37 years," Gurganus said. "I will treasure that forever. I have complete trust and confidence in the leadership of our Corps and fully respect the decision of our commandant."
"It has been an honor and a privilege to serve beside and lead Marines for over 37 years," Gurganus said. "I will treasure that forever. I have complete trust and confidence in the leadership of our Corps and fully respect the decision of our commandant."
Contrast that with the UK where no leader wants to rock the boat and glaring errors in the decision making process result in promotion and OBE's for those that really should be demoted or thrown out. I can't think of a single military leader or politician that has been held to account through professional incompetence since the Foreign Secretary resigned during the Falklands conflict.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK sometimes
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Wrathmonk, can you honestly see many of our VSOs releasing a statement like Maj Gen Gurganus following his censure?
Having worked with US Marines fairly recently, I can honestly say that across the ranks they are an extremely professional bunch; fiercely loyal to each other. If they mess up they immediately take responsibility for their (and their subordinates) actions; you just don’t see much of that in the RAF today, my branch in particular.
I do hope the UK investigation (I assume there was one) is as far reaching and thorough.
Having worked with US Marines fairly recently, I can honestly say that across the ranks they are an extremely professional bunch; fiercely loyal to each other. If they mess up they immediately take responsibility for their (and their subordinates) actions; you just don’t see much of that in the RAF today, my branch in particular.
I do hope the UK investigation (I assume there was one) is as far reaching and thorough.
If the task of guarding the base was assigned to the Brits, why have two US generals bitten the dust 
Pretty impressive, honourable and exemplary behaviour by the USMC top brass.
Food for thought for anyone in a position of authority.
Pretty impressive, honourable and exemplary behaviour by the USMC top brass.
Food for thought for anyone in a position of authority.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Probably because Gurganus was in charge of that region
and Sturdevant in charge of Aviation in that region.
Therefore they are your assets and even though local defense
might be a subordinate, ultimate responsibility rests with you.
and Sturdevant in charge of Aviation in that region.
Therefore they are your assets and even though local defense
might be a subordinate, ultimate responsibility rests with you.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,868
Received 2,818 Likes
on
1,200 Posts
Do you think they will get their pension or simply a letter from Congress telling them the cheque is in the post.
Interesting report, wasnt aware of the loss of the Harrier squadron commander in the battle. Brings home to you the ethos of the marines. Also to me as an outsider the problem of a mixture of nationalities/armed forces working together. Something like airfield defence in a war zone you would think would be totally watertight. Be interesting if any of the others involved got the same treatment as the Generals , somehow doubt it !
I'm all for accountability, but why is Gurganus being asked to retire when it appears he had identified the weaknesses, asked for changes and had them denied? He certainly didn't have the authority to change the security command structure.
Who denied the changes?!
Who denied the changes?!
Who denied the changes?
Probably the same people who wrote the report and hung the two generals out to dry whilst preventing them having the require resources to do the job.
The general who sacked them said they were both fine officers. He is the man who should go for not having the balls to point out to the politicians we can't fight wars with hands tied behind our backs.
After the Tillman story I think we can see some of the calibre of the Generals running the Pentagon.
Hats off to the General who took his unfair sacking on the chin. Now there is a General you could believe in.
Probably the same people who wrote the report and hung the two generals out to dry whilst preventing them having the require resources to do the job.
The general who sacked them said they were both fine officers. He is the man who should go for not having the balls to point out to the politicians we can't fight wars with hands tied behind our backs.
After the Tillman story I think we can see some of the calibre of the Generals running the Pentagon.
Hats off to the General who took his unfair sacking on the chin. Now there is a General you could believe in.
I'm with Fox3. If the Commander is given a task, but not the resources, especially when he's identified the shortfall and been denied it, then there is MUCH more to this than reported.
Thread Starter
The much more to this story, at least from the Marines end is force protection. Since the Marine barracks in Beruit was blown up with great loss of life, after mission accomplishment, it is the highest priority mission the Marines recognize. I was in some ****ty places in Africa, South East Asia and elsewhere and we had some particularly primitive accommodations as the better ones were deemed unsafe from a protection standpoint. A bit of a downer to see other services in air conditioned buildings while the Marines are in a tent away from anything with deep trenches around. Just part of being a Marine.
Even if the Brits had overall responsibility, the Marines should have had a security plan in place accounting for such an attack. I can all but guarantee that Marine elsewhere have received guidance to be prepared for this.
Even if the Brits had overall responsibility, the Marines should have had a security plan in place accounting for such an attack. I can all but guarantee that Marine elsewhere have received guidance to be prepared for this.
On the night of the attack, the Tongans left unmanned the watchtower nearest to the Taliban breach, according to an investigation by the U.S. Central Command.
Makes one wonder why the Taliban could figure it out but not the Brits or the Marines?
I know it is old fashioned.....but aggressive patrolling and the use of OP/LP's outside the perimeter at night is the very best way of preventing such attacks.
Last edited by SASless; 1st Oct 2013 at 15:11.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Complaints about refusal to accept responsibility are a common theme on this forum. To see senior officers (if indeed they were at fault) do so in an honourable fashion is both refreshing and unusual.
It is also interesting to contrast this with the 4th largest mil thread. I don't see the Taliban on it yet their attack destroyed more NATO jets than anyone in the top 40!
It is also interesting to contrast this with the 4th largest mil thread. I don't see the Taliban on it yet their attack destroyed more NATO jets than anyone in the top 40!
Last edited by ShotOne; 1st Oct 2013 at 17:20.
Thread Starter
SAS
One of the downsides of large bases in Indian country is a (false) feeling of immunity from danger. Couldn't agree with you more regarding operations outside the wire. Hopefully the takeaway lesson is etched in leaderships mind that if you sit looking like a big fat target, you're encouraging attacks.
One of the downsides of large bases in Indian country is a (false) feeling of immunity from danger. Couldn't agree with you more regarding operations outside the wire. Hopefully the takeaway lesson is etched in leaderships mind that if you sit looking like a big fat target, you're encouraging attacks.
Either awfully convenient