Paper Plates!
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I was hosting a group of Americans the other day at Waddo and was utterly embarrassed by not only the paper plate situation
Paper plates in an Officers Mess is frankly not acceptable
What did we do before dishwashers? Give me a bowl and a sponge and I'll wash them myself!
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Do the MOD hold regular "meaningful" Supplier Performance Meetings with these type of contracts based on performance data collected by the MOD and NOT the Supplier ? More importantly are such meetings held with Supplier Accountable Execs not middle/senior management ? Failure to deliver by the Supplier against defined/contracted KPI's SHOULD involve punitive fines/compensation
Even reading the Waddo website, do they only offer two dishes? One a meat dish and one different?
Do you not still get the choice from about 10 or 12 different dishes as we used to get?
The Colonel dictating when the heating comes on reminds me of the head of the piggery at Bruggen Q, he would determine when his plods out on guard duty could go from shirt sleeve to jackets on, as it was all for one and one for all.... He had a thermometer to see if it was cold enough, 'twas a nice thermometer mounted by the window INSIDE his office.
Last edited by NutLoose; 19th Sep 2013 at 17:47.
Now there is a win win for the MOD, listen to the complaints, fine the contractor and I bet the complainants / unit would never see the funds as they would disappear into an MOD account.
Even reading the Waddo website, do they only offer two dishes? One a meat dish and one different?
Do you not still get the choice from about 10 or 12 different dishes as we used to get?
Do you not still get the choice from about 10 or 12 different dishes as we used to get?
It is a sad fact of life that, after years of people complaining that they were paying for food that they were not eating, PAYD was seen as an alternative. Now people are eating out etc, again the contractor can't have too many options on the menu that aren't going to get eaten.
Nobody has mentioned yet that, as part of the contract, there is a gainshare agreement. Each mess should get a part of the contractors profits which get put back into the respective messes. I hope that this helps to buy a new dishwasher at Waddo OM!!
Last edited by Toadstool; 19th Sep 2013 at 18:29.
Here's a thought that came to me as I was out running with the hounds, come Mess A/EGMs, why not table a motion of no confidence in the contractors running the Mess? I can almost guarantee you would find at least 2 people suitably hacked off to act as proposer and seconder - force the Mess management to account for their actions - or lack of.
And if the likes of Aramark, ISS etc are publically listed, why not start sending a contingent from the Mess to raise questions at their AGM? I know you would never get anywhere, but as the general public generally views the Forces in a good light at the moment, it might at least cause a bit of shuffling in seats in much the same way that the you hear of pubs being boycotted after banning service personnel in uniform after parades etc.
The more I think about it, the more it irritates me - even as someone who lives out. I'm getting fed up of the average serviceman, of whichever cap badge, being seen off by poorly written, one-sided contracts forced upon us to save money and get some shiny-arsed desk jockey a promotion and an OBE for their efforts. There's bugger all we can do about kit, and even less about pay and pensions, but damn it the Mess is something we can and should kick up a fuss about. Assuming we are still bound by QRs to be Mess members, and seeing as we have to pay for the privilege, if the contractors want to treat the Mess as a commercial concern, then 2 can play at that game. You wouldn't put up with an awful meal served on a paper plate in a restaurant that has also charged you for admission so why should we put up with it in OUR Messes.
It's time to start lobbing a few grenades at Mess A/EGMs. It worked at Army HQ a couple of years back when we voted with our feet and the contractors called an EGM to complain they were losing money, so there's no reason it can't work again. A few votes of no confidence at AGMs and I bet you people will start to take note.
And if the likes of Aramark, ISS etc are publically listed, why not start sending a contingent from the Mess to raise questions at their AGM? I know you would never get anywhere, but as the general public generally views the Forces in a good light at the moment, it might at least cause a bit of shuffling in seats in much the same way that the you hear of pubs being boycotted after banning service personnel in uniform after parades etc.
The more I think about it, the more it irritates me - even as someone who lives out. I'm getting fed up of the average serviceman, of whichever cap badge, being seen off by poorly written, one-sided contracts forced upon us to save money and get some shiny-arsed desk jockey a promotion and an OBE for their efforts. There's bugger all we can do about kit, and even less about pay and pensions, but damn it the Mess is something we can and should kick up a fuss about. Assuming we are still bound by QRs to be Mess members, and seeing as we have to pay for the privilege, if the contractors want to treat the Mess as a commercial concern, then 2 can play at that game. You wouldn't put up with an awful meal served on a paper plate in a restaurant that has also charged you for admission so why should we put up with it in OUR Messes.
It's time to start lobbing a few grenades at Mess A/EGMs. It worked at Army HQ a couple of years back when we voted with our feet and the contractors called an EGM to complain they were losing money, so there's no reason it can't work again. A few votes of no confidence at AGMs and I bet you people will start to take note.
Last edited by Melchett01; 19th Sep 2013 at 18:29.
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Surely the best course would be to eat no course, if everyone refused to dine in off paper plates then I'm sure they would have it fixed tomorrow as their sales ceased.
Someone should link the thread to the Sun news desk, can see the headlines now..
Katie Price my inside story....
Oops sorry, wrong headline
RAF contem plates new dishwasher.
Someone should link the thread to the Sun news desk, can see the headlines now..
Katie Price my inside story....
Oops sorry, wrong headline
RAF contem plates new dishwasher.
Last edited by NutLoose; 19th Sep 2013 at 18:50.
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Have a Greek dining in night plate smashing party, you won't have to wash them then.
Last edited by NutLoose; 19th Sep 2013 at 19:21.
I quite liked the system a lot of army regimental messes used to operate. You walked in for lunch, which was served at a long table. You sat at the next empty seat, thus could be chatting through the meal to a subaltern or the colonel, depending on who had arrived before you, so cliques were avoided and strangers or newcomers didn't feel neglected. You were then served with lunch - no choice - but it always seemed good, as the chefs didn't have to try and prepare 12 different choices (see above). I don't think the army could have had vegetarians in those days, if so I guess they went hungry! Meals were served by soldiers who were called servants (very un-PC these days). Don't ever remember seeing any paper plates!
Autre temps - autre moeurs.
Autre temps - autre moeurs.
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I wonder what the possibility of opening a McDonald's or Burger King franchise on base would be - as if in a civilised country, say, a few thousand miles West of here.
Paper Plates!
WW - as nice as the odd burger is, it's hardly a healthy option. There are already enough overweight and unfit 20-somethings waddling their way to work everyday. They don't need any help in piling on the pounds.
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The Mess as we all knew and largely loved is dead and isn't going to be resurrected anytime soon. As of 01/09/13, I no longer pay Mess Subs and told the Mess Accountant that I would pay my subs in another Mess - she (a Sodhexo employee) didn't care and, quite frankly, neither do I. The PMC didn't care either - it's a garrison mess which I use once a month, if that.
As somebody who has never lived in or indeed only had occasional cause to use any mess while on a visit, I am stunned at what is being reported here.
A few years back the media went to town on the condition of married quarters. This issue is no different, and needs to be brought to a wider audience. Not just the paper plates, but the whole sorry management and the results of it; abysmal living conditions and armed forces personnel being forced to live out to maintain an adequate standard of accommodation.
I've worked in hospitals where ISS were in charge of domestic and catering services and was never that impressed, so I can't say I'm too surprised at their management of MoD catering. But it is an absolute disgrace and they -and other companies and those who negotiated the contracts- should be ashamed of themselves.
A few years back the media went to town on the condition of married quarters. This issue is no different, and needs to be brought to a wider audience. Not just the paper plates, but the whole sorry management and the results of it; abysmal living conditions and armed forces personnel being forced to live out to maintain an adequate standard of accommodation.
I've worked in hospitals where ISS were in charge of domestic and catering services and was never that impressed, so I can't say I'm too surprised at their management of MoD catering. But it is an absolute disgrace and they -and other companies and those who negotiated the contracts- should be ashamed of themselves.
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But they just don't give a ****......
As a company all they respond to is financial, if at the end of the year they are ahead of projection then it's tea and medals all round
Stuff the end user - cheaper, leaner, more profit.
As a company all they respond to is financial, if at the end of the year they are ahead of projection then it's tea and medals all round
Stuff the end user - cheaper, leaner, more profit.
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In the mess where I live during the week, had a comment in the dining room book albeit about 6 months ago 'Mouldy Bread' the reply was 'It won't happen again'. Since then I have had mouldy bread and the comment book has had another two comments on the same subject. ISS mess not as close to the runway as the other mess, where a certain lady is making her last flight today.
Last edited by Nomorefreetime; 20th Sep 2013 at 12:02.
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WW - as nice as the odd burger is, it's hardly a healthy option. There are already enough overweight and unfit 20-somethings waddling their way to work everyday. They don't need any help in piling on the pounds.
Anyway, an element of commercial competition wouldn't go amiss, which is the real point I was making. And not a fricking costa coffee cafe either.
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The more I think about it, the more it irritates me - even as someone who lives out. I'm getting fed up of the average serviceman, of whichever cap badge, being seen off by poorly written, one-sided contracts forced upon us to save money and get some shiny-arsed desk jockey a promotion and an OBE for their efforts.
The last straw for me (18 years service) was when my leave passes were continually being rejected for no apparent reason except "exigencies of the service". I found out later there was no money in the budget that year for motor mileage so the Boss had come up with a cunning, career saving plan to deny people the chance to put in a claim. I gave back my uniforms in 1994. I took the leave owing, the resettlement course and everything owing to me. I felt fully justified in sending the station a bill for 28 days rate 1s in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
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Forgive me if I'm way off here ...
Step 1
What's wrong with the PMC eMailing the Waddo ISS General Manager (cc'ing his Boss - see URL Link) and asking for a written explanation as to why the service within the Officers Mess has been so poor as mentioned here. Specifically asking for an explanation for the use of paper plates v U/S Dishwasher. The request is perfectly reasonable and could provide useful context for taking matters further. It's also not unreasonable to seek a commitment as to when "normal service" is to be resumed (I assume some kind of action like this will have already been taken ?).
RAF Waddington ISS Team
Step 2
Contemporaneous with Step 1 ... a member of the Mess Committee, on behalf of the PMC, gives a quick call to DE&S and ask for guidance on the process of giving feedback on a MOD Supplier who you believe is delivering a substandard service. But I guess the person making the call to DE&S will need to be persistent ... if there isn't a process ... then ask how such Supplier Performance metrics are collated, reviewed and by whom ... and keep pushing down that line until you have a PoC.
I have my suspicions that DE&S will have their resources focused on the sexy supply side ... Aircraft, Ships and Bullets ... however the ISS contract will be of significant size to merit Industry Standard Supplier Performance Management.
Step 1
What's wrong with the PMC eMailing the Waddo ISS General Manager (cc'ing his Boss - see URL Link) and asking for a written explanation as to why the service within the Officers Mess has been so poor as mentioned here. Specifically asking for an explanation for the use of paper plates v U/S Dishwasher. The request is perfectly reasonable and could provide useful context for taking matters further. It's also not unreasonable to seek a commitment as to when "normal service" is to be resumed (I assume some kind of action like this will have already been taken ?).
RAF Waddington ISS Team
Step 2
Contemporaneous with Step 1 ... a member of the Mess Committee, on behalf of the PMC, gives a quick call to DE&S and ask for guidance on the process of giving feedback on a MOD Supplier who you believe is delivering a substandard service. But I guess the person making the call to DE&S will need to be persistent ... if there isn't a process ... then ask how such Supplier Performance metrics are collated, reviewed and by whom ... and keep pushing down that line until you have a PoC.
I have my suspicions that DE&S will have their resources focused on the sexy supply side ... Aircraft, Ships and Bullets ... however the ISS contract will be of significant size to merit Industry Standard Supplier Performance Management.
Ministry of Defence
DE&S Secretariat
Maple 0a, #2043
MOD Abbey Wood
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BS34 8JH
Email
[email protected]
DE&S phone number
020 7 218 9000
DE&S Secretariat
Maple 0a, #2043
MOD Abbey Wood
Bristol
BS34 8JH
[email protected]
DE&S phone number
020 7 218 9000
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 20th Sep 2013 at 14:51.
