Bad Morale in the British Army?
Thread Starter
Bad Morale in the British Army?
Wot's this? Bad Morale in the British Army? Troops quitting and going to Civvie Street?
Amazing to think the UK is going to downsize to a 82,000 Man Army.
So long as you continue to refuse the American Invite to Fandango I guess so long as you can keep up with the Ceremonial duties you are good to go. Ya'll always did look good on Parade in those colorful uniforms and tall fur bonnets.
Sad too on top of the Troop Reduction itself is the loss of Regiments and all the Traditions that go along with them. That is a pity.
Surge of soldiers wanting to quit prompts morale concerns - Telegraph
Amazing to think the UK is going to downsize to a 82,000 Man Army.
So long as you continue to refuse the American Invite to Fandango I guess so long as you can keep up with the Ceremonial duties you are good to go. Ya'll always did look good on Parade in those colorful uniforms and tall fur bonnets.
Sad too on top of the Troop Reduction itself is the loss of Regiments and all the Traditions that go along with them. That is a pity.
Surge of soldiers wanting to quit prompts morale concerns - Telegraph
Bad Morale in the British Army?
This phrase encapsulates everything that is wrong with the MOD political types:
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said a huge number of soldiers had chosen to stay, "so it is not a reflection on morale in the Army".
I hope they don't genuinely believe the crap they spout to the press.
BV
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said a huge number of soldiers had chosen to stay, "so it is not a reflection on morale in the Army".
I hope they don't genuinely believe the crap they spout to the press.
BV
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"Army chiefs are particularly concerned they are losing a generation of officers who have gained invaluable experience from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. One senior Army source said: “It’s the worst I have seen it and we are losing some real high flyers who could have great careers in front of them.
“These are not old duffers, we are talking about highly experienced middle-ranking officers who have spent the last 12 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.”"
I would ask what was being done to make sure the "high flyers" didn't leave
or was it the usual military response of someone else will be available, no one
is that important !
This war generation will be in for maybe 20 years. A lot to lose.
“These are not old duffers, we are talking about highly experienced middle-ranking officers who have spent the last 12 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.”"
I would ask what was being done to make sure the "high flyers" didn't leave
or was it the usual military response of someone else will be available, no one
is that important !
This war generation will be in for maybe 20 years. A lot to lose.
Thread Starter
Young'uns don't have the willingness to suffer along for decades with no toys, poor housing, bad pay and benefits, all the while suffering under a bunch of Dicks.....at least not like older generations did.
Basically, I reckon the young'uns are a lot smarter than their Dad's and Granddads were.
Basically, I reckon the young'uns are a lot smarter than their Dad's and Granddads were.
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Yep.
And / Or, and I know this is anecdotal, they do the 4, 6, 8 years, fight a few wars
and get out while still young enough to get on with something else / start
another career.
And / Or, and I know this is anecdotal, they do the 4, 6, 8 years, fight a few wars
and get out while still young enough to get on with something else / start
another career.
Last edited by 500N; 4th Sep 2013 at 04:53.
One senior Army source said: “It’s the worst I have seen it and we are losing some real high flyers who could have great careers in front of them.
“These are not old duffers, we are talking about highly experienced middle-ranking officers who have spent the last 12 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Col Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, said many soldiers now viewed the Army as a “declining industry”.
He said: “People who had hoped to serve out full careers and have the expected career path and progression are seeing it shattered as the Army is cut to pieces.
“A lot of people are seeing their friends made redundant and that causes a lot of discontent. There’s a lot of concern about people losing allowances and how that will hit their standards of living.”
He said it would be “incredibly difficult” to replace the hard-won experience held by many of those leaving.
“These are not old duffers, we are talking about highly experienced middle-ranking officers who have spent the last 12 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Col Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, said many soldiers now viewed the Army as a “declining industry”.
He said: “People who had hoped to serve out full careers and have the expected career path and progression are seeing it shattered as the Army is cut to pieces.
“A lot of people are seeing their friends made redundant and that causes a lot of discontent. There’s a lot of concern about people losing allowances and how that will hit their standards of living.”
He said it would be “incredibly difficult” to replace the hard-won experience held by many of those leaving.
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I would ask what was being done to make sure the "high flyers" didn't leave.
In Britain's "modern military" individuals are not important, only the collective (think in terms of the Borg) and the achievement of political goals not practical solutions or even sensible outcomes.
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Whilst armed forces personnel experience overstretch, underinvestment and continual cutbacks, groups such as new immigrants, prisoners and the benefits class seem to be treated with more respect, dignity and funding. Didn't the barrack blocks at Colt have to be refurbed at considerable expense to meet the standards required for sex offenders and immigration detainees - what sort of message does that send to the nation's most loyal? Meanwhile, we had people returning from ops, living in leaking portacabins through the winter in a car park at home base. The mythical military covenant seems to be a very one sided deal and most instantly improve their quality of life and income by jumping ship. It is a deplorable state of affairs, and all governments of the last decade or two are equally culpable.
Didn't the barrack blocks at Colt have to be refurbed at considerable expense to meet the standards required
Good enough for the troops though
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Originally Posted by 500N:8029223
Yep.
And / Or, and I know this is anecdotal, they do the 4, 6, 8 years, fight a few wars
and get out while still young enough to get on with something else / start
another career.
And / Or, and I know this is anecdotal, they do the 4, 6, 8 years, fight a few wars
and get out while still young enough to get on with something else / start
another career.
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Outlaw Pete
That is interesting that the same applies in the UK.
My "anecdotal" was from reading, watching, talking to diggers
in my old unit who served in the regulars, the last Australian VC
winner who had done I think 6 years and got out.
That is interesting that the same applies in the UK.
My "anecdotal" was from reading, watching, talking to diggers
in my old unit who served in the regulars, the last Australian VC
winner who had done I think 6 years and got out.
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Tranche 1 Volunteers - The ones that had had enough and were going to go anyway. Not selected - gone anyway via the 7 Steps of JPA.
Non-volunteers - gone anyway.
Tranche 2 Volunteers - Those that had seen Phase 1 Vols go and get jobs and fancied a bit of that. Get ahead of the bow wave etc.
Non-volunteers - gone anyway. Survived 2 rounds - 2 to go
Tranche 3 Volunteers - Spoken to the others that had already gone and were seeing the extra work on them slowly increasing due to the others on resettlement etc. Slightly behind the bow wave now.
Non-volunteers - gone anyway. Getting more desperate and amazing how brave some of the wardodgers became.
Tranche 4 Volunteers - who knows?
Industry wanted Phase 1 vols and got a good crop.
Q. Why would you stay in an Army that is shrinking, losing its raison d'dtre in the coming months and not really sure of what the future holds when you could try your hand at other things? (Probably applies to other colours)
The Army is a young man's sausage machine as the routine and training can be brutal. It is not a 40+ year old's game...despite what those that you see running around like Mutant Ninja Turtles might want you to think?
I sure their knees will be fine in the the future.
G (Civvy since Tranche 1 - Took 12 months to get in the TA. Not seamless)
Non-volunteers - gone anyway.
Tranche 2 Volunteers - Those that had seen Phase 1 Vols go and get jobs and fancied a bit of that. Get ahead of the bow wave etc.
Non-volunteers - gone anyway. Survived 2 rounds - 2 to go
Tranche 3 Volunteers - Spoken to the others that had already gone and were seeing the extra work on them slowly increasing due to the others on resettlement etc. Slightly behind the bow wave now.
Non-volunteers - gone anyway. Getting more desperate and amazing how brave some of the wardodgers became.
Tranche 4 Volunteers - who knows?
Industry wanted Phase 1 vols and got a good crop.
Q. Why would you stay in an Army that is shrinking, losing its raison d'dtre in the coming months and not really sure of what the future holds when you could try your hand at other things? (Probably applies to other colours)
The Army is a young man's sausage machine as the routine and training can be brutal. It is not a 40+ year old's game...despite what those that you see running around like Mutant Ninja Turtles might want you to think?
I sure their knees will be fine in the the future.
G (Civvy since Tranche 1 - Took 12 months to get in the TA. Not seamless)
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Some sensible comments above me here.^
I always found the state of morale hard to gauge in the Navy, for a long time. Some of the most bitter people I ever met in my many years seemed to be the Junior Ratings of the ships company of HMS Illustrious in 1984. They seemed (I now perceive 29 years later) to feel they had been continuously seen off in a wide variety of ways since the ship had become operational (1982), and appeared to me (as a mere callow youth) a very tough, bitter,cynical and potentially violent set of lads at times. Loads of them seemed to wrap at the end of 1984 and that commission (when the ship went for refit) and went outside.
But really, thinking back they/we/me had it really easy.
I think the morale of the Navy I served with collapsed after SDR - you know Ark going, Invince. wrecked, SHAR went. Pay frozen, then the tranche redundancy thing, it just seemed to go on and on-fewer and few platforms made me feel very uneasy on operations. I though we really lacked credibility as a fighting force, the RN has become steadily weaker and weaker.Added as someone wiser than me says above, the people we were working for.....and I include senior military as well as civilian...were not good, not the right people at all. I really noticed it and had a long look at where I was (by this time I am in the old duffer park anyway) and simply resigned and left.
Now, I wish I'd left years earlier, (as many people say afterwards).
I cannot for the life of me think now why anybody either joins any of the forces, or stays in. I'm sorry but that's what I think.
"Why would morale be high?", could be another way of asking the question why is morale low?
God bless them though, especially the Army for doing it. I still appreciate them, more so than ever.
I always found the state of morale hard to gauge in the Navy, for a long time. Some of the most bitter people I ever met in my many years seemed to be the Junior Ratings of the ships company of HMS Illustrious in 1984. They seemed (I now perceive 29 years later) to feel they had been continuously seen off in a wide variety of ways since the ship had become operational (1982), and appeared to me (as a mere callow youth) a very tough, bitter,cynical and potentially violent set of lads at times. Loads of them seemed to wrap at the end of 1984 and that commission (when the ship went for refit) and went outside.
But really, thinking back they/we/me had it really easy.
I think the morale of the Navy I served with collapsed after SDR - you know Ark going, Invince. wrecked, SHAR went. Pay frozen, then the tranche redundancy thing, it just seemed to go on and on-fewer and few platforms made me feel very uneasy on operations. I though we really lacked credibility as a fighting force, the RN has become steadily weaker and weaker.Added as someone wiser than me says above, the people we were working for.....and I include senior military as well as civilian...were not good, not the right people at all. I really noticed it and had a long look at where I was (by this time I am in the old duffer park anyway) and simply resigned and left.
Now, I wish I'd left years earlier, (as many people say afterwards).
I cannot for the life of me think now why anybody either joins any of the forces, or stays in. I'm sorry but that's what I think.
"Why would morale be high?", could be another way of asking the question why is morale low?
God bless them though, especially the Army for doing it. I still appreciate them, more so than ever.
Last edited by Hangarshuffle; 6th Sep 2013 at 14:46.
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Just to add to what I think sitgelfel says above, twas poor accommodation at Culdrose that drove me to distraction....and I think of all the issues this was the one that made me hit the ejector button on JPA.
If the MOD or the country cannot get basic clean accomm. right for people who return from sea or desert operations, then a sticky wicket they are on. Seeing and reading about money lavished on a wide variety of the British social spectrum, whilst I lived in the delights of Vian Block, truly crushed my spirit.
And yes the young officers at CU had it even worse than the Senior Rates - how any of those very bright and able young guys and gals could put up with it I will never know. What a way to treat people.
If the MOD or the country cannot get basic clean accomm. right for people who return from sea or desert operations, then a sticky wicket they are on. Seeing and reading about money lavished on a wide variety of the British social spectrum, whilst I lived in the delights of Vian Block, truly crushed my spirit.
And yes the young officers at CU had it even worse than the Senior Rates - how any of those very bright and able young guys and gals could put up with it I will never know. What a way to treat people.
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Hangar
I have heard the comment made here in Aus that Asylum Seekers
get better PAID FOR accommodation that people on welfare, the
military etc and that's before all the other welfare payments are
made to them - for free.
It's no wonder mil people get pissed off.
I have heard the comment made here in Aus that Asylum Seekers
get better PAID FOR accommodation that people on welfare, the
military etc and that's before all the other welfare payments are
made to them - for free.
It's no wonder mil people get pissed off.
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Torque,
There is a continual banging of the anti-immigrant drum at present fed by chronic mis-representation of facts, xenophobia and giving a convenient diversionary scapegoat for many ills. Mostly it is pretty disgusting and is unlikely either to solve any problems or bring any long term benefit, while the reverse is perfectly possible. The economic benefits of imigration are consistently downplayed while focussing on how bad the illegal side is. Our political masters are driven by popular opinion, rather than willing to engage and lead it with proper informed debate.
Benefits have had a significant cudgel from the gov't, who stick to the strivers vs scroungers drivel in another surprisingly successful divide and conquer manoeuvre.
Decrying the decisions made on and within the MoD shouldn't mean a need to rush to the bottom to hurl stones at other easy and often undeserving targets IMO.
There is a continual banging of the anti-immigrant drum at present fed by chronic mis-representation of facts, xenophobia and giving a convenient diversionary scapegoat for many ills. Mostly it is pretty disgusting and is unlikely either to solve any problems or bring any long term benefit, while the reverse is perfectly possible. The economic benefits of imigration are consistently downplayed while focussing on how bad the illegal side is. Our political masters are driven by popular opinion, rather than willing to engage and lead it with proper informed debate.
Benefits have had a significant cudgel from the gov't, who stick to the strivers vs scroungers drivel in another surprisingly successful divide and conquer manoeuvre.
Decrying the decisions made on and within the MoD shouldn't mean a need to rush to the bottom to hurl stones at other easy and often undeserving targets IMO.
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Accommodation wasn't really an issue for me as anything was better than a hole in the ground sans bathroom.
Other factors mentioned above were also important.
A big question for me was also if all 3 colours have retained and promoted the type of leaders that I would want to work under for the next few years????
I was worried and made my decision.
G
Other factors mentioned above were also important.
A big question for me was also if all 3 colours have retained and promoted the type of leaders that I would want to work under for the next few years????
I was worried and made my decision.
G
Last edited by gijoe; 6th Sep 2013 at 17:02.
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TBH there are always relatively large numbers of people leaving the armed forces every year - there is some idea it's actually affected by how good civy street looks cp service prospects
In 2006-2007 Civy street was booming and a lot of people left - since then people have tended to be a bit more sticky
Defence Analytical Services and Advice: UK Armed Forces Quarterly Manpower Statistics
has the recent numbers
Somewhere between 12000 - 16000 leave every year (highest in 07-08)
Army loses 8000- 11000 (highest 07-08)
RAF 2500 - 5000 (06)
Navy very flat at 2250-3000 every year
In 2006-2007 Civy street was booming and a lot of people left - since then people have tended to be a bit more sticky
Defence Analytical Services and Advice: UK Armed Forces Quarterly Manpower Statistics
has the recent numbers
Somewhere between 12000 - 16000 leave every year (highest in 07-08)
Army loses 8000- 11000 (highest 07-08)
RAF 2500 - 5000 (06)
Navy very flat at 2250-3000 every year