Why don't we buy a Mossie for the BBMF?
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Mossie Documentary
There was a p*ss-poor (imho) documentary on the box a short while ago about the ex-NZ Mossie, now at Virginia Beach. The whole thing was a missed opportunity, and I would liked to have seen more op footage and also something about the Hornet (the "metal" Mossie).
I think Guy Gibson was killed in a Mossie, while acting as a Master Bomber. Still a rumour about him being shot down by friendly fire, but I dare say that is also on Prune somewhere.
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I think Guy Gibson was killed in a Mossie, while acting as a Master Bomber. Still a rumour about him being shot down by friendly fire, but I dare say that is also on Prune somewhere.
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you get into a situation where lots of aircraft have a legitimate claim to preservation and operation by the RAF. It would be difficult to argue that a Spitfire is somehow more significant than lots of other aircraft types
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 3rd Sep 2013 at 14:56.
Originally Posted by Old Ned
and I would liked to have seen more op footage and also something about the Hornet (the "metal" Mossie).
Last edited by GeeRam; 3rd Sep 2013 at 15:02.
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Possibly because, you would be pondering the question whether we should be adding a ME410 to join the BBMF Heinkel 111, ME109 and FW190 fighters.
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Quote WH904
"It would be difficult to argue that a Spitfire is somehow more significant than lots of other aircraft types, so given that the RAF can't operate them all, why operate any at all?"
May I suggest that that is defeatist talk?
May I suggest that that is defeatist talk?
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But does the RAF have tradesmen qualified to work on wooden primary structure aircraft? I remember this coming to the fore in 1986 when I was at Coningsby, and a mosquito was suggested. The only similarity with the other BBMF aircraft was the Merlin engine and some systems. Since no-one available had experience of casein glued wooden structures, the idea was quietly dropped.
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Not defeatist Andy, just realistic. Like I said, it's not as if the BBMF fleet wouldn't survive without the RAF because we know they would, therefore it seems absurd to continue spending money on them. The RAFAT struggles to survive as we know, and they are the RAF's "flagship" PR team, therefore it seems crazy to continue throwing money at aircraft that would still be flying around even if BBMF was wrapped-up.
Okay, we wouldn't have aircraft to perform commemorative flypasts but really, for the number of times this is necessary it would be cheaper to simply pay for a civilian owner to do it.
The Mosquito question emphasises the point, in that one can suggest lots of very significant aircraft that should be retained and flown, and as much as the BoB is an important historical event that should be remembered, it seems to imply that other RAF campaigns are therefore less important, not least the Cold War which was arguably way more significant, and much more relevant to younger people.
Okay, we wouldn't have aircraft to perform commemorative flypasts but really, for the number of times this is necessary it would be cheaper to simply pay for a civilian owner to do it.
The Mosquito question emphasises the point, in that one can suggest lots of very significant aircraft that should be retained and flown, and as much as the BoB is an important historical event that should be remembered, it seems to imply that other RAF campaigns are therefore less important, not least the Cold War which was arguably way more significant, and much more relevant to younger people.
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Maybe we should all move on from the BBMF name and just say WW2MF?
This Country (the UK) has still quite large financial resources, if you look at the monies poured into the RBS, which incidentally 80% was forwarded to an Irish bank it makes a mockery of us not flying historically famous planes to our Country.
It's more than flypasts, the aircraft are there for generations to see and hear, if you like, it's in our Genes.
Concerning this Mosquito, it's an opportunity, it won't come up often, it's part of our heritage, dare I also say that BBMF has seven Spitfires, what if they grounded one and had a Mosquito?
Now I do realise that in a H&S, PC world we can come up with a multitude of reasons not to do things but if DH in WW2 had the same ethos then the Mossie would never have been built.
Let's please focus on the positives?
This Country (the UK) has still quite large financial resources, if you look at the monies poured into the RBS, which incidentally 80% was forwarded to an Irish bank it makes a mockery of us not flying historically famous planes to our Country.
It's more than flypasts, the aircraft are there for generations to see and hear, if you like, it's in our Genes.
Concerning this Mosquito, it's an opportunity, it won't come up often, it's part of our heritage, dare I also say that BBMF has seven Spitfires, what if they grounded one and had a Mosquito?
Now I do realise that in a H&S, PC world we can come up with a multitude of reasons not to do things but if DH in WW2 had the same ethos then the Mossie would never have been built.
Let's please focus on the positives?
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Waddo Plummer is quite correct. A Mossie was well within the BBMF's grasp but the initiative failed due to the extra manpower that would be needed to maintain it and, believe it or not, concern that, in the future, there could be noone suitably qualified or with the necessary background the fly it to the required standard. Maddening but true as I believed (and still do) that it was the finest of all the aircraft that were spawned by the war.
Last edited by pontifex; 3rd Sep 2013 at 18:36.
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For the last time...
IT CANNOT FLY IN THE UK BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN MANUFACTURED TO A RECOGNISED STANDARD, HENCE IT COULDN'T FLY HERE ON ITS WAY TO THE STATES.
So all this BBMF operating it will never happen..... Period
It will be a travesty if it is grounded after so much work has gone into getting her into the sky, a bit like Kermit Week's one, such a waste..... And don't get me started on the Christmas Tree illuminated Sunderland.
GeeRam, that would have been Black 9
IT CANNOT FLY IN THE UK BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN MANUFACTURED TO A RECOGNISED STANDARD, HENCE IT COULDN'T FLY HERE ON ITS WAY TO THE STATES.
So all this BBMF operating it will never happen..... Period
It will be a travesty if it is grounded after so much work has gone into getting her into the sky, a bit like Kermit Week's one, such a waste..... And don't get me started on the Christmas Tree illuminated Sunderland.
GeeRam, that would have been Black 9
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Bit dodgy until it reached single engine safety speed which was quite high so I've heard. Loose a donk with a war load on at take off and it was a short drop to a hard stop.
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But does the RAF have tradesmen qualified to work on wooden primary structure
aircraft?
"RAF requires workers qualified to use a plane".
Originally Posted by NutLoose
IT CANNOT FLY IN THE UK BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN MANUFACTURED TO A RECOGNISED STANDARD, HENCE IT COULDN'T FLY HERE ON ITS WAY TO THE STATES.
Originally Posted by NutLoose
GeeRam, that would have been Black 9
WH904 - In actual fact the BBMF does not cost a huge amount of taxpayers money to run as it receives a significant amount of support from industry who are more than happy to be associated with AND support the flight which reduces the running costs.
I would rather have the BBMF than the Reds on any day of the week!
Whether the RAF turns out to be the fabled 100-year experiment or endures for centuries to come, I think it's likely that WW2 (in its entirety, not just the BofB) will forever rank as the Service's finest episode. For me, the BBMF is our HMS Victory. Perhaps a better name for it would be the RAF Memorial Squadron - with Battle of Britain and Bomber flights! A Mossie would be fantastic and would be a great airshow performer. Perhaps someone might build one from scratch to CAA's satisfaction and gift it to the nation?!
As for the symbolism of the Spitfire, well, yes, aviation history buffs will always point to facts like the Hurricane shooting down more bombers, the Mustang's range tipping the balance in the Allied bomber offensive, etc. The reason why the Spitfire will remain the enduring symbol of the RAF for the rest of the Service's days, despite the academic arguments, is that it caught the imagination of so many - whether the young boy watching dogfights above Kent or the Luftwaffe fighter pilot who had never experienced real fear on a mission before. And it has continued to capture the imagination ever since.
Whether the RAF turns out to be the fabled 100-year experiment or endures for centuries to come, I think it's likely that WW2 (in its entirety, not just the BofB) will forever rank as the Service's finest episode. For me, the BBMF is our HMS Victory. Perhaps a better name for it would be the RAF Memorial Squadron - with Battle of Britain and Bomber flights! A Mossie would be fantastic and would be a great airshow performer. Perhaps someone might build one from scratch to CAA's satisfaction and gift it to the nation?!
As for the symbolism of the Spitfire, well, yes, aviation history buffs will always point to facts like the Hurricane shooting down more bombers, the Mustang's range tipping the balance in the Allied bomber offensive, etc. The reason why the Spitfire will remain the enduring symbol of the RAF for the rest of the Service's days, despite the academic arguments, is that it caught the imagination of so many - whether the young boy watching dogfights above Kent or the Luftwaffe fighter pilot who had never experienced real fear on a mission before. And it has continued to capture the imagination ever since.
Last edited by Easy Street; 3rd Sep 2013 at 22:15.