Any spare troops/fire engines chaps?
Thread Starter
Any spare troops/fire engines chaps?
see here BBC News - Firefighters back industrial action in pensions row - I know the old MACP isn't supposed to cover this any more but will the guys and girls of HM forces end up filling in again? I wonder....
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One to watch.
The FBU says many firefighters will not be able to maintain fitness standards into their late 50s and this endangers the public. If any have to retire early at, for example, 55 as 'we' currently can do, they will suffer via an actuarial deduction. Having just worked on a rather complicated divorce case with some help from the Government Actuarial Department (thanks SPVA by the way
), thats a very scary proposition.
If we have servicemen soldiering on until 60, they face a similar financial scenario in the event of ageing bodies simply being unable to work as required.
The FBU says many firefighters will not be able to maintain fitness standards into their late 50s and this endangers the public. If any have to retire early at, for example, 55 as 'we' currently can do, they will suffer via an actuarial deduction. Having just worked on a rather complicated divorce case with some help from the Government Actuarial Department (thanks SPVA by the way
), thats a very scary proposition. If we have servicemen soldiering on until 60, they face a similar financial scenario in the event of ageing bodies simply being unable to work as required.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elements of RN (Aircraft Handlers among others) were briefed as well. FBU members have struck/worked to rule/carried out limited response to incidents several times over the last 13 odd years and threatened many more (as I recall). Possibly expect another limited action again in the future?
For some it's standby to standby...
Still at least the FBU's firemen can brush up their volleyball and top up their tans -
No sympathy for this lot as they should suck it up like the rest of us...
The B Word
Still at least the FBU's firemen can brush up their volleyball and top up their tans -
No sympathy for this lot as they should suck it up like the rest of us...
The B Word
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Might be all just hot air by the union, they're always scoping things then quietly dropping them. The manpower planners at both VL and CU always seemed to be having to draw up plans and contingencies, and thankfully a lot of the time they come to nothing. Hope this is the case here, last thing this country needs is internal strife and trouble.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Going deeper underground
Age: 55
Posts: 332
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Green Goddesses all got sold after Op FRESCO ZULU. The Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 requires the Fire Service to make its equipment available for third party use in the event of industrial action.
In another lifetime I was an RAF fire officer (Seletar and Kai Tak 1967 - 69). In those days the Fire School at Catterick was churning out firemen on a regular basis, a new course starting as the last one graduated. Nowadays with the much reduced RAF and many fire sections (as I understand it) now civilianised, just how many firemen could the RAF put into the civvy fire services should the need arise? I'm assuming the Navy and Army are in a similar position so I'm guessing the answer would be precious few.
The trouble is the people of this country still have this vague notion that there are thousands of spare troops sitting around doing nothing but whitewashing coal and polishing buttons, just waiting to help out when some crisis occurs. Someone should tell them, and at the same time make industrial action in the fire services on a par with the police - ie illegal.
The trouble is the people of this country still have this vague notion that there are thousands of spare troops sitting around doing nothing but whitewashing coal and polishing buttons, just waiting to help out when some crisis occurs. Someone should tell them, and at the same time make industrial action in the fire services on a par with the police - ie illegal.
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 29th Aug 2013 at 21:03.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Englandshire
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A fireman told me that there are plans to recruit members of the public to cover any strike, at the rate of £150 per day per recruit. A few days training running out hoses and climbing ladders, then be available to watch houses burn down, as per OP FIASCO. Might have to put some leave in, I remember how to drive the fire engine.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: raf
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by The B Word
No sympathy for this lot as they should suck it up like the rest of us...
Last edited by gr4techie; 30th Aug 2013 at 02:20.
A fireman told me that there are plans to recruit members of the public to cover any strike, at the rate of £150 per day per recruit. A few days training running out hoses and climbing ladders........
That sounds in line with the requirements of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 and the preparation for several local Op FRESCOs post ZULU. However, the local authority fire and rescue services took some convincing about the need to have a workable plan that did not include calling on MOD support.
Also, in my experience the MOD and particularly the Standing Joint Commander (UK) liked to be 'forward leaning', meaning our plan was usually better and could be implemented more quickly (unions have to give a week's notice of strike), so MOD support was still generated.
I'm sure there are plenty of recently discarded military personnel out there willing and able to be firemen.
Batco
That sounds in line with the requirements of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 and the preparation for several local Op FRESCOs post ZULU. However, the local authority fire and rescue services took some convincing about the need to have a workable plan that did not include calling on MOD support.
Also, in my experience the MOD and particularly the Standing Joint Commander (UK) liked to be 'forward leaning', meaning our plan was usually better and could be implemented more quickly (unions have to give a week's notice of strike), so MOD support was still generated.
I'm sure there are plenty of recently discarded military personnel out there willing and able to be firemen.
Batco
I don't want to strike and I'd ask you to take what the press say with a giant pinch of salt! I don't expect any sympathy here but some of my colleagues are really getting a proper fisting. If your pensions have been adversely affected then I'm sorry for you because it's not right. We live in a country run by politicians who excel at squandering countless billions.........they allow our benefits system to be systematically raped by people who, in some cases have never contributed a penny and have no right to be here........our NHS to be exploited in the same way. We have a bloated M.O.D. that seems unable to bring projects in on time and on budget and we spend countless more billions sticking our noses into other peoples business and wasting the lives of brave young men and women.....and don't even get me started on casino bankers or a foreign aid budget that is misguided to say the least! I went through OASC Biggin Hill twice in the mid 1980's but didn't have what it takes, so I have the highest regards for those serving in the armed forces...........so come on gents, the cheap shots aren't helpful. I haven't seen a snooker table in my brigade for years and I don't have a second job. I do know there are people walking around today that wouldn't have been had it not been for the actions of me and my colleagues.
Best wishes to you all.......time to don my tin hat and head for the bunker!!!!!!!
Dave
Best wishes to you all.......time to don my tin hat and head for the bunker!!!!!!!
Dave
This simply isn't a forces issue anymore, the Government contracted Serco in the last fire dispute using pooled equipment and trained personnel and they coped very well. It's a long standing contractural agreement and the days of green goddesses and forces volunteers are long gone by some years.
Mopardave,
Having spent many weeks doing scenic tours of Nottingham in a Green Godess in the 1970s. I like many of my then colleagues would never question the firemans bravery,ability nor commitment I'm sure. The fact cannot be denied, surely, that many of the troops, if they use troops, who will take up your duties should you strike, are paid less than you are, and, have no right to strike. Just being "whistful" for a second or two. The firemen that took on the Blitz in Coventry, Portsmouth and London Docks did not put their pay and pensions before their duty. Neither do British servicemen. I have always had respect for my fellow public servants in the Fire, Police and Ambulance services, but, the use of unions and strike action does now lead me to question that belief.
Smudge
Having spent many weeks doing scenic tours of Nottingham in a Green Godess in the 1970s. I like many of my then colleagues would never question the firemans bravery,ability nor commitment I'm sure. The fact cannot be denied, surely, that many of the troops, if they use troops, who will take up your duties should you strike, are paid less than you are, and, have no right to strike. Just being "whistful" for a second or two. The firemen that took on the Blitz in Coventry, Portsmouth and London Docks did not put their pay and pensions before their duty. Neither do British servicemen. I have always had respect for my fellow public servants in the Fire, Police and Ambulance services, but, the use of unions and strike action does now lead me to question that belief.
Smudge
Smudge
lets be clear about something. I and many thousands of committed firefighters do not want to strike. I'm not getting into whether I will or I won't........I did last time and we felt bad for the armed forces personnel who stepped in for us. I understand the economic situation this country finds itself in...........and all as a result of foolish politicians who's priorities are at best questionable. I agree with most of what you say.......I truly hope armed forces pensions haven't been affected because you know what........I'm humbled by the bravery of our boys and girls in the military.......truly humbled. The way our armed forces are treated is despicable.......I have some insight......my son is a former Royal Engineer. Dare I say it, but are you not missing the point? Why do our leaders feel able to squander our money and GIVE IT AWAY to people who've never contributed a damn thing.......whether they were born here or not, and yet we can't afford pensions for people who do the right thing........no wonder we can't afford pensions. Pensions need overhauling........career averaging makes sense to me. This country is in a mess........not because of people like you and I, but because of the fools who have their hands on the levers of power and their snouts in the trough. Remember the MP's expenses scandal........at least one member of the house of lords was jailed, and then returned to her seat in the lords on release. I'd be sacked, no question about it. I am not a left wing unionist......I'm Mr middle England.......really I am. I know I've a good job, and I understand that when I cease to be of use to my employer, I'll be discarded.....be it dismissal on capability grounds or my retirement. I'm not unrealistic or unreasonable either. I'll finish by saying, please, please don't believe what you read in the press.........that was the most upsetting thing for me in the last strike........they described firefighters that I just didn't recognise.......we all had second jobs, holiday homes in Florida etc, etc, but hey, that's the propaganda machine for you, right?
I'll get my coat!
Best wishes to you all
Dave
lets be clear about something. I and many thousands of committed firefighters do not want to strike. I'm not getting into whether I will or I won't........I did last time and we felt bad for the armed forces personnel who stepped in for us. I understand the economic situation this country finds itself in...........and all as a result of foolish politicians who's priorities are at best questionable. I agree with most of what you say.......I truly hope armed forces pensions haven't been affected because you know what........I'm humbled by the bravery of our boys and girls in the military.......truly humbled. The way our armed forces are treated is despicable.......I have some insight......my son is a former Royal Engineer. Dare I say it, but are you not missing the point? Why do our leaders feel able to squander our money and GIVE IT AWAY to people who've never contributed a damn thing.......whether they were born here or not, and yet we can't afford pensions for people who do the right thing........no wonder we can't afford pensions. Pensions need overhauling........career averaging makes sense to me. This country is in a mess........not because of people like you and I, but because of the fools who have their hands on the levers of power and their snouts in the trough. Remember the MP's expenses scandal........at least one member of the house of lords was jailed, and then returned to her seat in the lords on release. I'd be sacked, no question about it. I am not a left wing unionist......I'm Mr middle England.......really I am. I know I've a good job, and I understand that when I cease to be of use to my employer, I'll be discarded.....be it dismissal on capability grounds or my retirement. I'm not unrealistic or unreasonable either. I'll finish by saying, please, please don't believe what you read in the press.........that was the most upsetting thing for me in the last strike........they described firefighters that I just didn't recognise.......we all had second jobs, holiday homes in Florida etc, etc, but hey, that's the propaganda machine for you, right?
I'll get my coat!
Best wishes to you all
Dave
Mopardave,
Read my post again. I really have no gripe with the lads who jump when a shout comes in. And like you, I really do despise the way the pollies use the press to defame people who only weeks before the sanctimonious b*stards are praising. I'm wondering personally how long before Dunkinsmith is set loose on military pensions, war pensions etc. having given the best part of my life to service in the RAF I feel that the Fire Service would have the same ethos as the military, which would generally be, we hate the political crap, but we will always get the job done. I promise you that it's that attitude that puts you above the detritus that makes a living in the SW1 postcode. My only concern is that when the real experts won't do their job, real people die. As an old DI would have told me "rise above it, clench buttocks and teeth and get on with it". Whatever you and your colleagues decide to do remember that the only loser in all of it is the victim of the fire. My apologies if you feel I'm opposing your rights as a trades unionist.
Smudge
Read my post again. I really have no gripe with the lads who jump when a shout comes in. And like you, I really do despise the way the pollies use the press to defame people who only weeks before the sanctimonious b*stards are praising. I'm wondering personally how long before Dunkinsmith is set loose on military pensions, war pensions etc. having given the best part of my life to service in the RAF I feel that the Fire Service would have the same ethos as the military, which would generally be, we hate the political crap, but we will always get the job done. I promise you that it's that attitude that puts you above the detritus that makes a living in the SW1 postcode. My only concern is that when the real experts won't do their job, real people die. As an old DI would have told me "rise above it, clench buttocks and teeth and get on with it". Whatever you and your colleagues decide to do remember that the only loser in all of it is the victim of the fire. My apologies if you feel I'm opposing your rights as a trades unionist.
Smudge
Smudge........I'm not really a trade unionist. I am a member of the FBU, partly because of the protection and support I'd get if I was in trouble. I believe unions are beneficial up to a point. You're right, in my "game", if we're not on the ball, or indeed working, people are at increased risk.......but I don't like it when it's used as a stick to beat us with. We went on strike 10 years ago and didn't achieve a damn thing........we lost, big time! It broke my bloody heart, and I never thought it would happen again.........when the result was announced I felt sick. I care what people think about us but the pension thing is a distraction......our politicians treat the "good" people of this country shamefully......I'd love to have a chat with our PM......just so he could make me feel better about the way middle England has been sold down the river.
Anyway, enough ranting........I'm sure we'd be able to sort it all out over a beer.........without resorting to pouring it over each others heads! Like I said, please don't believe the crap you're about to read about us in the press.
Best wishes mate
Dave
Anyway, enough ranting........I'm sure we'd be able to sort it all out over a beer.........without resorting to pouring it over each others heads! Like I said, please don't believe the crap you're about to read about us in the press.
Best wishes mate
Dave