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Woman RAF officer joins top military brass

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Woman RAF officer joins top military brass

Old 26th Aug 2013, 17:11
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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I suppose we could have the argument about the WAAF, WRAF and RAF; different T&Cs etc etc. I personally don't recollect a female RAF officer of 2 Star rank.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 19:37
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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As I said earlier in the thread. Up until 1994 there were no women in the RAF, because they were in the WRAF until 1920, no women at all between 1920 and 1938 (apart from the Princes Mary's RAF Nursing Service which has been going throughout from 1918 to present day), the ATS in 1938, the WAAF from 1939 until 1949 and the WRAF from 1949 to 1994. All the these made up the Air Forces of Great Britain, just like the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, etc... Make up the Naval Service of Great Britain.

From what I can see there have been 4x 2-stars serving full-time and also a 4-star who was Princes Alice who was the CinC of the WRAF until her passing. Now if there was a WRAF or WAAF these days then this latest 2-star would have been definately in it, as they no longer exist she is in the RAF. "Semantics" I hear? Yup, but she is most certainly not "the first female to make 2-star in the Air Force" and the others were all full-time and definately not part-time reserves as some seem to be insinuating.

LJ

PS. Once again, I am not patronising, be-littling or devaluing AVM West's fantastic achievement, it's just that headlines are misleading and is spinning a story that is not true.

Last edited by Lima Juliet; 26th Aug 2013 at 19:40.
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Old 27th Aug 2013, 08:25
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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SASless is really plumbing the depths of unnecessary bad taste and offensiveness these days. Pity. His posts used to be worth reading. Male menopause?
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Old 27th Aug 2013, 09:22
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone got Elaine and Stringy's e-mail details? please PM me if you have.

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Old 27th Aug 2013, 09:45
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Geggy - DCO. See PM.

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Old 27th Aug 2013, 12:41
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Small point but there were women in the RAF prior to 1994 - all the doctors and dentists were RAF and definitely not WRAF!!
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Old 27th Aug 2013, 13:41
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Fortunately I spent my 30 years in a Branch where women were normal (as in simply other human beings who did the same job as the blokes).

Indeed, back in the early 90s (as Branch/Trade sponsor) I responded to a letter asking about female quotas. I was very happy to be able to respond that "the ATC Branch and Trade has no quota ... We take the best man/woman for the job."

I was surprised to note that others had quotas. We managed to amortise officer training before the ladies managed to trap a handsome member of aircrew (I believe there were some) before departing the fix
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Old 27th Aug 2013, 15:21
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We managed to amortise officer training before the ladies managed to trap a handsome member of aircrew ....
There was a good reason for that....boy, the shelves must have been big in ATC
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Old 27th Aug 2013, 16:29
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Rather than complaining that she's not the first 2-star in the RAF, modern or otherwise, can't we just celebrate the fact that an evidently well-liked and talented RAF officer is currently the most senior woman in the armed forces, royalty excepted?
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Old 27th Aug 2013, 16:43
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 5 Forward 6 Back
Rather than complaining that she's not the first 2-star in the RAF, modern or otherwise, can't we just celebrate the fact that an evidently well-liked and talented RAF officer is currently the most senior woman in the armed forces, royalty excepted?
Not really, as the RAF was broadly gender-neutral, IME, apart from the Master Race of course. She just happens to be a good chap with a lumpy jumper, and I would say no more than that.

Originally Posted by Wrathmonk
There was a good reason for that....boy, the shelves must have been big in ATC
There were the Good, the Bad and the Ugly and the Rather Overweight. But IME very few utter dogs. The Flying Prevention Branch tended to attract ladies with personality and an affinity to aviation. And, apart from one incompetent cow, I never had any problem with them - from LAC upwards.

As a bit of "reverse polarity", I 'acquired' an ex-Admin Sec as a first-tourist flt lt ATCO - a very late transfer of Branches. She was under confident at first, so having shovelled her through the training mill I gave her a few months - and then selected her for training as a Watch Supervisor. She protested "I'm a first tourist" I wasn't interested she had the brains and the maturity. Some 3-6 months later, she was a superb Watch Sup. Cheers, Liz
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Old 27th Aug 2013, 23:40
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Wot Courtney, baff and Genstab said!

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Old 28th Aug 2013, 05:17
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Wot Courtney, baff said
Bless, male menopause too? Let me guess, all of you short in stature, >1 wife?

Last edited by lj101; 28th Aug 2013 at 05:22.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 11:36
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If it's all about best person for the job, I look forward to reading about AVM West getting her third star in a few years on posting to Air Sec, replacing AM Wiles' replacement...or is first non-aircrew Air Sec even more difficult than first(ish) woman AVM...
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 20:45
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Originally Posted by LeggyMountbatten View Post
If it's all about best person for the job, I look forward to reading about AVM West getting her third star in a few years on posting to Air Sec, replacing AM Wiles' replacement...or is first non-aircrew Air Sec even more difficult than first(ish) woman AVM...
?

Air Sec is a 2-star and the current incumbent is not aircrew.

AMP&C is a 3-star and aircrew.

Last edited by Climebear; 29th Aug 2013 at 20:50.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 07:01
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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we are living in an enlightened age and the RAF is better than this. First
gay squadron commander? First black two star? First asian..... you get my
drift.
Unfortunately, government departments have not just to be even handed with equality - they have to be seen to be even handed with equality, hence the way this news story has been promulgated. I suppose that the most derisory example of this was whenever joint management glossies were released with the photographs of four serving officers on the front cover: the RAF officer was black, the army officer was female, leaving the reader to guess whether it was the naval officer or the marine who was gay.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:42
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Climebear

It's a fair cop...didn't do my staff work thoroughly. Think I was getting Air Sec and AMP confused....

As AMP seems to have become a dual appointment with Deputy Commander Air Command then always aircrew.

Maybe Air Sec for her next tour...she's at least one tour left (51).

The wasted talent in years gone by is a crime in retrospect...there was an amazing ADSecPol in the late 70s (married to a Rock) but ISTR forced to leave when family started. Asked about returning mid 80s and told that she'd have to return on demotion to sqn ldr and that would be it.....
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 17:15
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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lj101

No wot I said was

Wot Courtney, baff and Genstab said!
Blimey I thought you were my mate.....there's no such thing as the male menopause because men don't have a mens....l cycle. Motor cycle, bicycle, unicycle and even life cycle perhaps.

Still congratulations to AVM West.

Rgds SOS
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 18:01
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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I see that another fine officer has been promoted to the one-star ACOS Trg role in 22Gp. Not aircrew and not male!
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 18:12
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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ACOS Trg

So now working for the AVM much criticised by the ET chair in the discrimination case on another thread.....
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Old 1st Sep 2013, 08:53
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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New ACOS Trg is a cracking officer whom I know.

However, also subject to the same gripe of no campaign medals as Air Traffickers rarely deploy (although one did work for me in the sandpit a couple of years ago).

Should a small level of front line operational experience exclude you from the starred ranks by not being able to discuss/think at the strategic level about ops from a position of experience?

LJ

Last edited by Lima Juliet; 1st Sep 2013 at 08:54.
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