Woman RAF officer joins top military brass
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: at home
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congratulations Ma'am, a promotion well deserved.
There is (in spite of previous posts) no corrosive attitude towards desert gongs versus no gongs - aside from the usual banter at dining in nights.
Promotion to Air Rank is to be congratulated on merit. Entirely seperately, Op Gongs are for those who deserve them (and some Klingons who are posted to theatre to ensure that we all wear hats and exchange a bottle of water for a cold one in the fridge). Who gives a toss either way? Well done
There is (in spite of previous posts) no corrosive attitude towards desert gongs versus no gongs - aside from the usual banter at dining in nights.
Promotion to Air Rank is to be congratulated on merit. Entirely seperately, Op Gongs are for those who deserve them (and some Klingons who are posted to theatre to ensure that we all wear hats and exchange a bottle of water for a cold one in the fridge). Who gives a toss either way? Well done
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,868
Received 2,818 Likes
on
1,200 Posts
What's with all this gong fetish, go join McDonalds you can get 4 stars there.
..
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 23rd Aug 2013 at 21:54.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'There is an increasingly corrosive attitude around these days, which can be described as "You ain't done sand = you ain't done $hit"; such a blinkered attitude needs to be restrained. I first came across the very same attitude some 31 years ago, when I encountered some poisonous little thruster of a Sqn Ldr who was desperate for a posting to the South Atlantic - for no other reason than "If you haven't been to the Falklands, you're no-one in London".'
...but Mr BEagle let us be serious.
Life in defence has changed an awful lot in the last 10 years and you need to be in touch with it.
Bottom Line - Ranks above SO1 have no idea about what is needed at the delivery level. Bust. Sand is not everything but it is better than NI alone.
Understanding what has happened on ops in the last 10 years is important ...BECAUSE WE NEED TO BE READY FOR THE NEXT BIG SHOUT.
(SHOUT mode off)
G
...but Mr BEagle let us be serious.
Life in defence has changed an awful lot in the last 10 years and you need to be in touch with it.
Bottom Line - Ranks above SO1 have no idea about what is needed at the delivery level. Bust. Sand is not everything but it is better than NI alone.
Understanding what has happened on ops in the last 10 years is important ...BECAUSE WE NEED TO BE READY FOR THE NEXT BIG SHOUT.
(SHOUT mode off)
G
Last edited by gijoe; 23rd Aug 2013 at 22:20.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many of the chaps over on ARRSE are less than impressed by Mrs West's promotion.
And they probably don't feel too happy about the former AC/LAC/SAC now running the show in the South Atlantic.
And they probably don't feel too happy about the former AC/LAC/SAC now running the show in the South Atlantic.
G
You couldn't do much worse - the NEM and AFPS15 seems to be working towards a Grade 'A*' screw up!
By the way, I would venture that things have changed much in ~20 years since I did my first campaign; I didn't learn much more on the subsequent visits back and forth! However, prior to that, things have changed a lot (IMHO).
LJ
You couldn't do much worse - the NEM and AFPS15 seems to be working towards a Grade 'A*' screw up!
By the way, I would venture that things have changed much in ~20 years since I did my first campaign; I didn't learn much more on the subsequent visits back and forth! However, prior to that, things have changed a lot (IMHO).
LJ
Originally Posted by Leon Jabachjabicz
...However, how much longer do we have to put up with "first female to" headlines?...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South of England
Age: 74
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Off Topic
My apologies to AVM West and PPruners for going off topic but..............
Secret1 you have made 18 posts in a little over 3 years; not much of a contribution really.
Your last 2 posts, on this thread, have been pointless invective; no logical thought and no sensible argument.
Why bother?
Rgds SOS
Secret1 you have made 18 posts in a little over 3 years; not much of a contribution really.
Your last 2 posts, on this thread, have been pointless invective; no logical thought and no sensible argument.
Why bother?
Rgds SOS
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't know the Lady but well done Ma'am, that is a career to be proud of
Counters the accusations over the past days on other threads that the RAF is less than a meritocratic organisation.
Counters the accusations over the past days on other threads that the RAF is less than a meritocratic organisation.
It seems that "first" and "only" doesn't quite cut it though in this case - count the rings on her No 1s...
This is Katherine Trefusis-Forbes (as previously mentioned) from the Women's Aux Air Force. She was a 2-star.
This is Katherine Trefusis-Forbes (as previously mentioned) from the Women's Aux Air Force. She was a 2-star.
I neglected to add my own congratulations to AVM West. She must be exceptionally competent, both within her branch and without, to achieve her current prominence from such humble beginnings.
...then there is Mary Welsh...
So, whilst I am delighted for this officer of high regard, I am not so delighted with having the "first female to" rammed down my throat by the incredibly ignorant media lot (FFS the RAF is only 95 years old - it can't be that difficult!).
LJ
So, whilst I am delighted for this officer of high regard, I am not so delighted with having the "first female to" rammed down my throat by the incredibly ignorant media lot (FFS the RAF is only 95 years old - it can't be that difficult!).
LJ
Then there was Jean Conan Doyle (the daughter of Sir Arthur) who was also a 2 star...
So should the headline read "New Head of DIO goes to well respected officer" - now that would be gender fair, don't you think?
So should the headline read "New Head of DIO goes to well respected officer" - now that would be gender fair, don't you think?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: oxford
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LJ
Your diatribe that she isn't the first should perhaps be pointed out to CDS, as he just may have been the chap that wanted all of this media attention for Ma'am West, and her promotion success.
As a FTRS officer your DII account can surely reach him.
Your diatribe that she isn't the first should perhaps be pointed out to CDS, as he just may have been the chap that wanted all of this media attention for Ma'am West, and her promotion success.
As a FTRS officer your DII account can surely reach him.
LJ - Isn't the point that AVM West is a member of the regular RAF, not a separate auxiliary force or service? Otherwise, by your reckoning, each of the 17 Directors of WRNS qualified as a Royal Navy 2* despite having belonged to a separate service prior to amalgamation.
Mind you, the Royal Navy has had its own woman 3* for some years:
Despite sounding rather clumsy, perhaps "first woman 2* in the regular RAF" would suit you better?
Mind you, the Royal Navy has had its own woman 3* for some years:
FOD Plod
Semantics, old bean, semantics. Would you care to define 'Regular' - there are many full-time WAAFs and many highly decorated (I've met some in a rather select Club in Knightsbridge).
The Women's RAF disbanded in 1920 and the WAAFs were its replacement along with the Nursing Service. The WRAF did not form again until after the war and then finally everything was blobbed into the RAF.
Now if we were to cherry pick like you suggest, then the RAF should not be celebrating the 100 year anniversaries of our Sqns (which were RNAS and RFC originally) that we have so blatantly trumpeted over the past 3 years or so (including RAF jets with anniversary painted tails). You can't have it both ways old chum
So in my reckoning the headline should read either:
"Talented officer is appointed Head of DIO" - removing all traces of equality and diversity spin.
Or "Female officer Elaine West appointed 4th ever 2-star in RAF"
Everything else is spin and lies...
IMHO
LJ
Semantics, old bean, semantics. Would you care to define 'Regular' - there are many full-time WAAFs and many highly decorated (I've met some in a rather select Club in Knightsbridge).
The Women's RAF disbanded in 1920 and the WAAFs were its replacement along with the Nursing Service. The WRAF did not form again until after the war and then finally everything was blobbed into the RAF.
Now if we were to cherry pick like you suggest, then the RAF should not be celebrating the 100 year anniversaries of our Sqns (which were RNAS and RFC originally) that we have so blatantly trumpeted over the past 3 years or so (including RAF jets with anniversary painted tails). You can't have it both ways old chum
So in my reckoning the headline should read either:
"Talented officer is appointed Head of DIO" - removing all traces of equality and diversity spin.
Or "Female officer Elaine West appointed 4th ever 2-star in RAF"
Everything else is spin and lies...
IMHO
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 24th Aug 2013 at 08:53.