Still at the pointy end ?
Thread Starter
Still at the pointy end ?
I left the RAF some 16 years ago after 30 years service. I suspect that since leaving, my understanding of changes made and new practises may have changed the service beyond my cognisance. A recent post highlighted that many current service personnel may shun PPRUNE military on the grounds that its inhabited by old codgers. I, like many of the old codgers, I'm sure, would like to hear what life in the modern RAF is like, what challenges face our crews involved in all aspects of operational and support flying ? Whats it like to support modern operations as groundcrew ? How different is it, really, from days gone by. Obviously, I'm not asking anyone to run foul of the OSA but maybe we may find that there's not a huge separation between days gone by and now, as suggested elsewhere. I for one wonder how much C130 Tasking and operations have changed since my days as a GE. I'm sure there are others (ex) who wonder "how goes the old job". I'm hoping we can get some input from current personnel, who probably could highlight the realities of modern service. If its dead in the water, then at least we gave it a go.
Smudge
Smudge
Still at the pointy end ?
Smudge.
I like your idea and hope it catches on but sadly I don't know much about Herc ops. That's the one with four big spinny round bits on the wings right?!
Now if anyone wants to talk about jets that are now out of service and endless QFI tours then allow me to dit on.
BV
I like your idea and hope it catches on but sadly I don't know much about Herc ops. That's the one with four big spinny round bits on the wings right?!
Now if anyone wants to talk about jets that are now out of service and endless QFI tours then allow me to dit on.
BV
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All I can say is that I served from 1953 to 1983, and the RAF I read about today is nothing like the one I lived in. So, it's hard to relate to some of the situations described on here.
Bob C
Bob C
I should imagine the FJ flying I did over Afghanistan was probably very similar to a lot of the flying people did as part of WARDEN, Northern/Southern Watch etc.
The support package and kit is probably a million miles better, though. Despite the popular comments about under-equipped Brits, I couldn't believe the amount and quality of kit I was given for my first jaunt to war. No tents either, so while it wasn't quite GW1/Bahrain hotel levels of comfort, coming home to an air conditioned room with (limited) wifi, hot showers, an excellent gym, a coffee shop etc made going to Afghanistan a surprisingly bearable experience, compared to what people right out in the field manage with.
The jets, while they had the vast majority of kit they wanted and were being constantly upgraded, there were still a few things to cause frustrations. When I talk to some of the execs and PA guys, I get the impression that life on ops was broadly similar.
When I looked back at old squadron diaries, it all looked pretty similar. We did just as much drinking at happy hour and dining-in nights, but a lot less during the week.
Smudge and others, what stuff seems foreign to you now? What stuff is hard to relate to?
The support package and kit is probably a million miles better, though. Despite the popular comments about under-equipped Brits, I couldn't believe the amount and quality of kit I was given for my first jaunt to war. No tents either, so while it wasn't quite GW1/Bahrain hotel levels of comfort, coming home to an air conditioned room with (limited) wifi, hot showers, an excellent gym, a coffee shop etc made going to Afghanistan a surprisingly bearable experience, compared to what people right out in the field manage with.
The jets, while they had the vast majority of kit they wanted and were being constantly upgraded, there were still a few things to cause frustrations. When I talk to some of the execs and PA guys, I get the impression that life on ops was broadly similar.
When I looked back at old squadron diaries, it all looked pretty similar. We did just as much drinking at happy hour and dining-in nights, but a lot less during the week.
Smudge and others, what stuff seems foreign to you now? What stuff is hard to relate to?
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Smudge,
Maybe one point to consider in reply to your comment ("many current service personnel may shun PPRuNe military on the grounds that its inhabited by old codgers") is this: many cuurent serving personnel read but don't post on PPRuNe because they consider it unwise to do so, and do not want to run the risk of compromising operations or personnel, or starting potentially damaging rumouors. Yes, I know PPRuNe is a rumour network... I certainly never posted when I was in the Service but having left I now feel fairly safe to do so (within limits). That said, it was great to read some of the old stories even if I couldn't/wouldn't reciprocate with current yarns.
Bottom line: I think PPRuNe has the right blend of current and ex-serving members, even if the ex-serving members appear to post more.
Maybe one point to consider in reply to your comment ("many current service personnel may shun PPRuNe military on the grounds that its inhabited by old codgers") is this: many cuurent serving personnel read but don't post on PPRuNe because they consider it unwise to do so, and do not want to run the risk of compromising operations or personnel, or starting potentially damaging rumouors. Yes, I know PPRuNe is a rumour network... I certainly never posted when I was in the Service but having left I now feel fairly safe to do so (within limits). That said, it was great to read some of the old stories even if I couldn't/wouldn't reciprocate with current yarns.
Bottom line: I think PPRuNe has the right blend of current and ex-serving members, even if the ex-serving members appear to post more.
Smudge,
Maybe an extreme case but this is something that hit me between the eyes when I returned to the fold.
I left, after 22 years, in 1986 as a Ch.Tech fairy and along with 6 Sgts, I had 76 juniors to look after. My reporting chain was a W.O., a Flt. Lt. Bengo and a Sqn.Ldr Sengo who were all of a "heavy" breed and didn't want to know about fairy stuff.
I went off and spent 14 years in the oil and gas business and retired in 1999 age 53. After a couple of years, I got a bit bored and joined the CS as a grade D PTO at a unit near Lincoln. Where I worked, there were about 10 teams of 6-8 ORs each controlled by a Flt. Lt., above this there were 2 Sqn. Ldrs topped off by a Wg. Cdr. I was amazed that in 15 years, a job done by a Ch. Tech was being done by a Wg. Cdr. and that control of a 6-8 man team, which would have been done by a senior Cpl. now justified a Flt. Lt.
There were other marked differerences, mainly concerning skills and abilities but it would take too long to list them all.
Maybe an extreme case but this is something that hit me between the eyes when I returned to the fold.
I left, after 22 years, in 1986 as a Ch.Tech fairy and along with 6 Sgts, I had 76 juniors to look after. My reporting chain was a W.O., a Flt. Lt. Bengo and a Sqn.Ldr Sengo who were all of a "heavy" breed and didn't want to know about fairy stuff.
I went off and spent 14 years in the oil and gas business and retired in 1999 age 53. After a couple of years, I got a bit bored and joined the CS as a grade D PTO at a unit near Lincoln. Where I worked, there were about 10 teams of 6-8 ORs each controlled by a Flt. Lt., above this there were 2 Sqn. Ldrs topped off by a Wg. Cdr. I was amazed that in 15 years, a job done by a Ch. Tech was being done by a Wg. Cdr. and that control of a 6-8 man team, which would have been done by a senior Cpl. now justified a Flt. Lt.
There were other marked differerences, mainly concerning skills and abilities but it would take too long to list them all.
Last edited by The Oberon; 18th Aug 2013 at 07:46.
Smudge, I'm sure that the RAF changed a lot in the 30 years that you were in it. It certainly did in the mere 13 years that I was in. It's just that you were in it all that time and changed along with it, as it were. I'm sure that it wasn't all gradual, but even the "bumps" along the way could be accommodated. They had to be.
What seems to strike us more though are the obvious changes that have occurred in our years away. Sort of like returning to see your first home, now sporting new windows, an extension and a new front door. No doubt others did the same thing when you lived there and noted the changes since their time.
So it is with this forum. We are entranced by Danny 42C's postings on the WW2 Pilot Brevet thread of the RAF that he and his predecessors describe and marvel at the contrast with the more intimate one we knew. That is the power of PPRuNe, and long may it be so.
Scottie66 makes a very important point too, that many serving read but don't post. That silent majority is easily observed in the viewing/replies ratio on the RHS of the thread lists. They are our "readers", to be amused or appalled as appropriate!
Oh, edited to add that I'm learning more about my time, let alone any other, thanks to PPRuNe. We are all by nature somewhat parochial and I was as guilty as others in sticking to my "kind", ie aircrew Squadron personnel. Now thanks to you and your colleagues, the "other" Air Force is revealed of the engineering support on which our very lives depended. Similarly Danny tells us the ATC side of things, Al R the Regiment's, etc etc. I learn something everyday in this virtual crew room!
What seems to strike us more though are the obvious changes that have occurred in our years away. Sort of like returning to see your first home, now sporting new windows, an extension and a new front door. No doubt others did the same thing when you lived there and noted the changes since their time.
So it is with this forum. We are entranced by Danny 42C's postings on the WW2 Pilot Brevet thread of the RAF that he and his predecessors describe and marvel at the contrast with the more intimate one we knew. That is the power of PPRuNe, and long may it be so.
Scottie66 makes a very important point too, that many serving read but don't post. That silent majority is easily observed in the viewing/replies ratio on the RHS of the thread lists. They are our "readers", to be amused or appalled as appropriate!
Oh, edited to add that I'm learning more about my time, let alone any other, thanks to PPRuNe. We are all by nature somewhat parochial and I was as guilty as others in sticking to my "kind", ie aircrew Squadron personnel. Now thanks to you and your colleagues, the "other" Air Force is revealed of the engineering support on which our very lives depended. Similarly Danny tells us the ATC side of things, Al R the Regiment's, etc etc. I learn something everyday in this virtual crew room!
Last edited by Chugalug2; 18th Aug 2013 at 08:39. Reason: Adding PS
Smudge,
At the risk of repeating myself endlessly, I have cut and pasted some comments I made recently in another thread...
"...the RAF is now run on the basis of management rather than leadership (how many officers have MBAs these days, even down to junior level?).
This has created a tick chasing, box filling culture, where the performance of a base, and no doubt promotion recommendations for senior officers, is now measured in terms of certain KPIs (key performance indicators).
In the same way that league tables for schools ended up distorting activity (for example I have heard of schools not letting pupils sit exams because they would probably only get a D, which would effect the schools pass rate and therefore league table position), the same is happening within the RAF. Station senior hierarchy make meeting KPIs their main focus of activity, creating a culture where the box has to be ticked, whether or not it actually has any relevance to the individual involved, and despite the amount of effort/goodwill/overtime it might require to do so..."
The admin burden of individuals has increased masssively in recent years, partly as a result of IT changes. Between switching to the DII system, then learning about MOSS, then having to do yet another IT security course on line, many of which are annual requirements, then checking e-mails that have nothing to do with me (as a result of people using the classic easy opt out of "reply to all" once someone starts a scattergun type e-mail) a large of amount of my time is simply spent checking information which often isn't relevant. Then of course there's JPA.
20+ years ago the spread of IT was minimal, and people only burst into print when necessary, partly because of the amount of effort involved. In the same way you filled in individual forms for leave, travel claims, hand wrote a signal, etc. They also "talked" more to each other, in the worse case by phone. Nowadays, with easy access to IT, the amount of information being pushed out by individuals (many of whom see their output productivity as having a direct result on their promotion prospects) is vast. The classic can't see the wood for the trees approach.
What are Oberon's 10 Flt Lts, 2 Sqn Ldrs and a Wg Cdr doing that he used to do as a Chf Tech? No doubt partly generating and responding to the massive amount of information being circulated out there, along with quality (and quality improvement) meetings, H&S meetings, risk management, execs meetings, etc.... But is the actual workforce doing a markedly better job, or even a noticeably better one?
Whether anyone will agree with this or not will probably depend on their age (I have been for 30 odd years). The younger generation will have grown up in the world of IT, will take it for granted, and have no previous military experience of hand writing memos, signals, leave passes, etc. Some of the older guys may agree with me....
At the risk of repeating myself endlessly, I have cut and pasted some comments I made recently in another thread...
"...the RAF is now run on the basis of management rather than leadership (how many officers have MBAs these days, even down to junior level?).
This has created a tick chasing, box filling culture, where the performance of a base, and no doubt promotion recommendations for senior officers, is now measured in terms of certain KPIs (key performance indicators).
In the same way that league tables for schools ended up distorting activity (for example I have heard of schools not letting pupils sit exams because they would probably only get a D, which would effect the schools pass rate and therefore league table position), the same is happening within the RAF. Station senior hierarchy make meeting KPIs their main focus of activity, creating a culture where the box has to be ticked, whether or not it actually has any relevance to the individual involved, and despite the amount of effort/goodwill/overtime it might require to do so..."
The admin burden of individuals has increased masssively in recent years, partly as a result of IT changes. Between switching to the DII system, then learning about MOSS, then having to do yet another IT security course on line, many of which are annual requirements, then checking e-mails that have nothing to do with me (as a result of people using the classic easy opt out of "reply to all" once someone starts a scattergun type e-mail) a large of amount of my time is simply spent checking information which often isn't relevant. Then of course there's JPA.
20+ years ago the spread of IT was minimal, and people only burst into print when necessary, partly because of the amount of effort involved. In the same way you filled in individual forms for leave, travel claims, hand wrote a signal, etc. They also "talked" more to each other, in the worse case by phone. Nowadays, with easy access to IT, the amount of information being pushed out by individuals (many of whom see their output productivity as having a direct result on their promotion prospects) is vast. The classic can't see the wood for the trees approach.
What are Oberon's 10 Flt Lts, 2 Sqn Ldrs and a Wg Cdr doing that he used to do as a Chf Tech? No doubt partly generating and responding to the massive amount of information being circulated out there, along with quality (and quality improvement) meetings, H&S meetings, risk management, execs meetings, etc.... But is the actual workforce doing a markedly better job, or even a noticeably better one?
Whether anyone will agree with this or not will probably depend on their age (I have been for 30 odd years). The younger generation will have grown up in the world of IT, will take it for granted, and have no previous military experience of hand writing memos, signals, leave passes, etc. Some of the older guys may agree with me....
Last edited by Biggus; 18th Aug 2013 at 08:58.
Thread Starter
BV,
Thanks for that, I'm not specifically looking at Herk Ops, its just an interest in how the RAF has changed in the years since I left. I do not have a lot of contact with current personnel.
5F6B,
Thanks for that, and having spent time at Raider base, and had the luxury of the hotel, I'm pretty sure modern accommodation can be quite good. It certainly sounds as though you see little difference across the years. Obviously, techniques and practises developed over years are fairly sound on that basis. I do think though that some I know who have left felt that workloads had increased and they were spending more time away than in the past, due in the main to reductions in personnel. From a Groundcrew point of view, there are now a lot more "contracted out" non service people around a unit. Does that make any major differences to support for ops ?
Scottie,
Point taken, and the last thing I would want anyone to do is risk any censure for commenting on PPRUNE.
The Oberon,
Now that sounds like a big difference from my day. As a C130 GE we had a section of 32 personnel, all Sgts and Chf Techs. Our boss was a Flt Sgt who reported directly to OC Ops (even though we belonged to Eng Wg). I wonder from your experience if when they reduced manpower they retained more Commissioned posts and therefore had to redistribute the Officer Corps accordingly.
Thanks for responding to my OP chaps, I'm certain that PPRUNE is a place where we can all learn something, and a bit of banter can be had.
Smudge
Thanks for that, I'm not specifically looking at Herk Ops, its just an interest in how the RAF has changed in the years since I left. I do not have a lot of contact with current personnel.
5F6B,
Thanks for that, and having spent time at Raider base, and had the luxury of the hotel, I'm pretty sure modern accommodation can be quite good. It certainly sounds as though you see little difference across the years. Obviously, techniques and practises developed over years are fairly sound on that basis. I do think though that some I know who have left felt that workloads had increased and they were spending more time away than in the past, due in the main to reductions in personnel. From a Groundcrew point of view, there are now a lot more "contracted out" non service people around a unit. Does that make any major differences to support for ops ?
Scottie,
Point taken, and the last thing I would want anyone to do is risk any censure for commenting on PPRUNE.
The Oberon,
Now that sounds like a big difference from my day. As a C130 GE we had a section of 32 personnel, all Sgts and Chf Techs. Our boss was a Flt Sgt who reported directly to OC Ops (even though we belonged to Eng Wg). I wonder from your experience if when they reduced manpower they retained more Commissioned posts and therefore had to redistribute the Officer Corps accordingly.
Thanks for responding to my OP chaps, I'm certain that PPRUNE is a place where we can all learn something, and a bit of banter can be had.
Smudge
The main difference I have noticed over the years is that the tempo of the daily grind during 'normal' home-based ops has increased markedly. With regard to flying, this is because the numbers of engineers and aircrew have been cut down to the minimum that can possibly do the job, meaning that those remaining increasingly work flat-out all day (not helped by increasing numbers of additional 'good idea' core training policies and the steady increase in length of pre-deployment training courses). We can still get things done, but the days of "lunches of the month" and regular early stacks seem a distant memory. I guess this is all to be expected given the emphasis on value for money and accountability - still, it has changed the ethos over the years.
The pace of the daily grind has also increased beyond all recognition in the HQs. This is not so much about staff numbers as it is about process. There used to be spending reviews every couple of years, but now they're annual and seem to occupy the whole year. The safety and assurance worlds are also generating an unreasonable volume of work, I think mainly because the practitioners don't have the self-confidence to know when they have already made an adequate case and continue to pursue everything down to utter minutiae.
The result of all this is that everyone seems to be working flat out, all the time. I still see glossy magazines with pictures of people off on adventurous training expeds or at ski champs - but in all honesty I don't know which bit of the RAF they're working in, it's certainly not one I recognise!
The pace of the daily grind has also increased beyond all recognition in the HQs. This is not so much about staff numbers as it is about process. There used to be spending reviews every couple of years, but now they're annual and seem to occupy the whole year. The safety and assurance worlds are also generating an unreasonable volume of work, I think mainly because the practitioners don't have the self-confidence to know when they have already made an adequate case and continue to pursue everything down to utter minutiae.
The result of all this is that everyone seems to be working flat out, all the time. I still see glossy magazines with pictures of people off on adventurous training expeds or at ski champs - but in all honesty I don't know which bit of the RAF they're working in, it's certainly not one I recognise!
In my quarter of a century, as others have said, the biggest change has been the Internet/Intranet - we are now slaves to e-mails and MS Office. Coupled on top of JPA, MOSS and other unwieldy software programs it's a wonder we ever get anything done at all! All the Admin staff have been pared back, as have the number of juniors and this burden means that just to go flying for a couple of hours a week is an absolute pleasure - still it won't be long before they route our Inboxes into the aircraft!
As for Inboxes, there is now a culture of sending you an e-mail, expecting you to have read it and then giving a ridiculous un-agreed timeline to produce a reply or work to the e-mail sender. My telephone hardly rings anymore!
This is the biggest change I think you would notice...
LJ
As for Inboxes, there is now a culture of sending you an e-mail, expecting you to have read it and then giving a ridiculous un-agreed timeline to produce a reply or work to the e-mail sender. My telephone hardly rings anymore!
This is the biggest change I think you would notice...
LJ
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Like Oberon I had few years away from the RAF, 16 to be precise and I was amazed at how top heavy it had become too. I'm not actually an employee but joined a flying club on a major base. One thing I noticed is that a Group Captain was considered to be good enough to be a CO at one time; this particular unit has an AC and three GPs...
Still, I'm not involved in the whys and wherefores so I suppose there must be reason.
Still, I'm not involved in the whys and wherefores so I suppose there must be reason.
Thing,
Good point, the unit I am talking about is a lodger also commanded by an A.C. with 3 possibly 4 Grp.Cpts below him. All these officers either equate to or outrank the Staish where the unit is lodged.
Good point, the unit I am talking about is a lodger also commanded by an A.C. with 3 possibly 4 Grp.Cpts below him. All these officers either equate to or outrank the Staish where the unit is lodged.
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The admin burden of individuals has increased masssively in recent years, partly as a result of IT changes. Between switching to the DII system, then learning about MOSS, then having to do yet another IT security course on line, many of which are annual requirements, then checking e-mails that have nothing to do with me (as a result of people using the classic easy opt out of "reply to all" once someone starts a scattergun type e-mail) a large of amount of my time is simply spent checking information which often isn't relevant. Then of course there's JPA.
I use dii and MOSS daily yet manage without completing pointless courses. Security courses can be summed up by don't leave your laptop on trains, don't visit porn sites and don't use USB sticks. Its not hard really, its a complete Norse though for those who are computer literate being forced to do courses designed for IT numpties
Last edited by VinRouge; 18th Aug 2013 at 12:40.
VR:-
There's an even better solution IMHO, and that is to restore the powers of command to Station and Unit Commanders. That is where the real change has come since my days, and very much for the worse. The RAF really only ever had commanders of men (and latterly women) up to Station level. Above that it was, and still is, a bureaucracy. Never mind the fancy titles of "Air Officer Commanding in Chief", etc, the real commanding was done by "the Boss", or if you were in real stir, the Staish.
Now everything is referred up the CoC, be it Compassionate, Domestic, or what used to be plain old "exercising the Powers of a Subordinate Commander" as laid down in MAFL. All swept away now of course by Human Rights, Legal ambulance chasers, etc. Restore those powers and let the bosses be bosses again and you'd be a lot better off, in my view.
OC 48 Sqn at RAF Changi, when told that his First Line Servicing night shifts were being denied refreshment visits by the NAAFI bun wagon, because the local manager deemed them to be unprofitable, threatened to bring in an outside contractor (contrary to the trading monopoly enjoyed by NAAFI). The manager called his bluff, so the boss went to the Staish and gained his support, arguing that the Operational Status of his Squadron could be undermined by demoralised ground crews. Despite the NAAFI sending out some el supremo to Singapore to stop him, he went ahead anyway, agreed a price list, a monthly sub into the Sqn fund, and payment for rent and electricity consumed. The arrangement outlived him, outlived the switch from Hastings to Hercules, and outlived the Sqn move from one end of the airfield to the other. Whether you agree with his actions or not, those were the powers of command then. Time they were reinstated!
If they were, nonsenses as described by others above would soon cease to bother.
There is a simple solution. Chin it off.
Now everything is referred up the CoC, be it Compassionate, Domestic, or what used to be plain old "exercising the Powers of a Subordinate Commander" as laid down in MAFL. All swept away now of course by Human Rights, Legal ambulance chasers, etc. Restore those powers and let the bosses be bosses again and you'd be a lot better off, in my view.
OC 48 Sqn at RAF Changi, when told that his First Line Servicing night shifts were being denied refreshment visits by the NAAFI bun wagon, because the local manager deemed them to be unprofitable, threatened to bring in an outside contractor (contrary to the trading monopoly enjoyed by NAAFI). The manager called his bluff, so the boss went to the Staish and gained his support, arguing that the Operational Status of his Squadron could be undermined by demoralised ground crews. Despite the NAAFI sending out some el supremo to Singapore to stop him, he went ahead anyway, agreed a price list, a monthly sub into the Sqn fund, and payment for rent and electricity consumed. The arrangement outlived him, outlived the switch from Hastings to Hercules, and outlived the Sqn move from one end of the airfield to the other. Whether you agree with his actions or not, those were the powers of command then. Time they were reinstated!
If they were, nonsenses as described by others above would soon cease to bother.
Last edited by Chugalug2; 18th Aug 2013 at 15:14.
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Thing,
Good point, the unit I am talking about is a lodger also commanded by an A.C. with 3 possibly 4 Grp.Cpts below him. All these officers either equate to or outrank the Staish where the unit is lodged.
Good point, the unit I am talking about is a lodger also commanded by an A.C. with 3 possibly 4 Grp.Cpts below him. All these officers either equate to or outrank the Staish where the unit is lodged.
Blimey.. Why? No wonder the budgets through the roof, during my period the Staish was a Groupie and an the station his way.
no experience of now, but work wise the Chinook Puma and VC 10 must be about the same as when inwas serving, you will be following the same specific maintenance programme all be it with a few add ons bunged on them, though one imagines a lot of the maintenance recording is now computerised.
Last edited by NutLoose; 18th Aug 2013 at 15:45.
Smudge,
You really don't want to know the realities of modern service life, it would only make you weep.
This is the second time I have typed this out. The first time, by the time I got to the end I realised I couldn't post it as nobody would believe it. But to sum it up, the general thrust went along the lines of:
Ways and means are more important than ends. The Civil Servants, contractors and accountants have more say and more authority than many commanders, certainly below 1-star level. Red tape is the order of the day, so much so that you sometimes wonder if the politicians and civil servants are actually involved in some sort of bizarre denial of service attack on the military by bogging them down in policy, paperwork and email traffic.
In short, if you want a high flying career in today's military, skip Cranwell, Sandhurst or Dartmouth and join the Civil Service as an accountant or lawyer and get seconded to the MOD. The only thing pointy round here these days is the pot of pencils on the desk in J8 used to scribble 'denied' over bits of paperwork.
Edited to add - just read Easy Street's post - spot on!
the realities of modern service.
This is the second time I have typed this out. The first time, by the time I got to the end I realised I couldn't post it as nobody would believe it. But to sum it up, the general thrust went along the lines of:
Ways and means are more important than ends. The Civil Servants, contractors and accountants have more say and more authority than many commanders, certainly below 1-star level. Red tape is the order of the day, so much so that you sometimes wonder if the politicians and civil servants are actually involved in some sort of bizarre denial of service attack on the military by bogging them down in policy, paperwork and email traffic.
In short, if you want a high flying career in today's military, skip Cranwell, Sandhurst or Dartmouth and join the Civil Service as an accountant or lawyer and get seconded to the MOD. The only thing pointy round here these days is the pot of pencils on the desk in J8 used to scribble 'denied' over bits of paperwork.
Edited to add - just read Easy Street's post - spot on!
Last edited by Melchett01; 18th Aug 2013 at 22:45.
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1972 - 1998
1972, 70Sqn were operating several Hercs and Argosys out of Akrotiri with ONE JENGO and FltSgt working days. If we needed a Red/Green signing out of hours we took the F700 to the 'Station Duty Eng Officer' and explained the problem.
1998, BLSS Lyneham operating Hercs with a Flt Sgt and JENGO on every shift, a JENGO and SENGO on days and, of course, OC Eng looking after A and B line.
The only thing that did not increase in this time was the ratio of tradesman to aircraft.
1998, BLSS Lyneham operating Hercs with a Flt Sgt and JENGO on every shift, a JENGO and SENGO on days and, of course, OC Eng looking after A and B line.
The only thing that did not increase in this time was the ratio of tradesman to aircraft.
Having left some 15 years ago and then joined a mil contrator for some years until recently, I believe Oberon has the most accurate view.
The lack of manpower and "job-creep" is rife because most engo's don't really have a job other than shift-shuffling and "other stuff" for their bosses.
Even amongst engo's - jobs have risen to new levels.
I believe this is to maintain manpower - but, like the NHS, it's all in the wrong places (IMHO).
Too many Cheif's...
The lack of manpower and "job-creep" is rife because most engo's don't really have a job other than shift-shuffling and "other stuff" for their bosses.
Even amongst engo's - jobs have risen to new levels.
I believe this is to maintain manpower - but, like the NHS, it's all in the wrong places (IMHO).
Too many Cheif's...