New Japanese Carrier
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"TV news described it as a "flat top destroyer".
Evidently not as big as a "through deck cruiser" !!
"
So as not to offend the neighbours as the name Aircraft carrier would
Evidently not as big as a "through deck cruiser" !!
"So as not to offend the neighbours as the name Aircraft carrier would
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Thomas Coupling. Japan is a pluralist democracy ruled by law. China is a Communist/One Party state ruled by The Party. You prefer China's version of history, and the One Party's opinion about teaching of Japanese history in Japan. Willful ignorance is your prerogative. I just checked the calendar: it reads 2013, not 1942.
Yamagata:
Lest you forget..........
http://www.cnd.org/mirror/nanjing/NMNJ.html
and
BBC News - What Japanese history lessons leave out
A charming race....don't you think?
Lest you forget..........
http://www.cnd.org/mirror/nanjing/NMNJ.html
and
BBC News - What Japanese history lessons leave out
A charming race....don't you think?
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F-35Bs on 22DDH ex-JMSDF Admirable
Much more to this longish article at the JUMP:
The Day When Japan Has A True Aircraft Carrier 21 Aug 2013 Hiraku Katsuyama
(SEKAI NO KANSEN (JAPAN) 01 SEP 13) Hiraku Katsuyama is former admiral and Japan Maritime Self-Defense fleet commander.
The Day When Japan Has A True Aircraft Carrier - Association of Naval Aviation in Virginia Beach, Virginia - Hampton Roads Squadron
The Day When Japan Has A True Aircraft Carrier 21 Aug 2013 Hiraku Katsuyama
(SEKAI NO KANSEN (JAPAN) 01 SEP 13) Hiraku Katsuyama is former admiral and Japan Maritime Self-Defense fleet commander.
"...Possibilities for the 22DDH Light Aircraft Carrier
It is still assuming a lot that Japan will acquire a fifth-generation V/STOL fighter plane (from here, generally understood to mean the F-35B), but I will discuss the developmental possibilities for the 22DDH helicopter carrier with this assumption.
1. Putting the F-35B Into Operation Without Remodeling [the 22DDH]
The 22DDH would be able to serve as a takeoff and landing, as well as a holding, vessel for the F-35B. As for the number of planes, in addition to pilot rescue helicopters and a V/STOL AEW aircraft, and considering the placement of the aircraft moorings and the necessary work space, it is thought a 22DDH could hold ten or so F-35Bs.
The problem is the payload for the planes on board. In the case of aircraft operations with the 22DDH, compared with a large aircraft carrier or a light aircraft carrier equipped with a ski jump ramp and landing equipment (arresting gear), the 22DDH would be fairly constrained as far as its combat radius and the number of missiles it could carry. However, since these constraints could be mitigated by advancing close to the area of operations so that the planes could be utilized, even though the number of planes would be limited, if a high-performance fifth-generation fighter plane like the F-35B is part of the equation, the 22DDH could play a substantial and active role.
2. Equipping a Ski Jump Ramp
A 22DDH could be equipped with a simple-type ski jump ramp. One way would be to attach a truss-structure ski jump ramp near the bow of the vessel. Even though this would include reinforcing the ship’s hull, attaching a ramp would require relatively little construction work, time, and cost.
However, in this case, to ensure an adequate length of the runway for takeoffs, the standby area for the next plane to takeoff will have to be limited, which would lengthen the intervals between takeoffs. Moreover, since a ski jump at the ship’s bow will create air turbulence, the direction the vessel can take during landings will be constrained.
A truss-type ski jump ramp would be made on land in advance, requiring several months for the construction and attachment and costing under 100 million yen. (The construction period and costs are estimates taking into consideration the relationship with the ship’s hull; further research needs to be done on matters, such as the adding of ballast, related to maintaining the ship’s performance. The same holds for the option described below.)
One other option is to build a full-fledged ski jump ramp within the bow. In this case, the 22DDH would be able to carry out flight operations as a light aircraft carrier....
...even if the 22DDH is commissioned into service in line with the current plan, it could still serve as a takeoff and landing and holding vessel for V/STOL fighter aircraft. In order for Japan to prepare itself to be able to deter and prevent independently attacks on the Nansei Islands, particularly the Senkaku, Miyako, and Yaeyama islands, adding the F-35B operational capability to a 22DDH-class vessel is very meaningful. Moreover, it is also possible...."
It is still assuming a lot that Japan will acquire a fifth-generation V/STOL fighter plane (from here, generally understood to mean the F-35B), but I will discuss the developmental possibilities for the 22DDH helicopter carrier with this assumption.
1. Putting the F-35B Into Operation Without Remodeling [the 22DDH]
The 22DDH would be able to serve as a takeoff and landing, as well as a holding, vessel for the F-35B. As for the number of planes, in addition to pilot rescue helicopters and a V/STOL AEW aircraft, and considering the placement of the aircraft moorings and the necessary work space, it is thought a 22DDH could hold ten or so F-35Bs.
The problem is the payload for the planes on board. In the case of aircraft operations with the 22DDH, compared with a large aircraft carrier or a light aircraft carrier equipped with a ski jump ramp and landing equipment (arresting gear), the 22DDH would be fairly constrained as far as its combat radius and the number of missiles it could carry. However, since these constraints could be mitigated by advancing close to the area of operations so that the planes could be utilized, even though the number of planes would be limited, if a high-performance fifth-generation fighter plane like the F-35B is part of the equation, the 22DDH could play a substantial and active role.
2. Equipping a Ski Jump Ramp
A 22DDH could be equipped with a simple-type ski jump ramp. One way would be to attach a truss-structure ski jump ramp near the bow of the vessel. Even though this would include reinforcing the ship’s hull, attaching a ramp would require relatively little construction work, time, and cost.
However, in this case, to ensure an adequate length of the runway for takeoffs, the standby area for the next plane to takeoff will have to be limited, which would lengthen the intervals between takeoffs. Moreover, since a ski jump at the ship’s bow will create air turbulence, the direction the vessel can take during landings will be constrained.
A truss-type ski jump ramp would be made on land in advance, requiring several months for the construction and attachment and costing under 100 million yen. (The construction period and costs are estimates taking into consideration the relationship with the ship’s hull; further research needs to be done on matters, such as the adding of ballast, related to maintaining the ship’s performance. The same holds for the option described below.)
One other option is to build a full-fledged ski jump ramp within the bow. In this case, the 22DDH would be able to carry out flight operations as a light aircraft carrier....
...even if the 22DDH is commissioned into service in line with the current plan, it could still serve as a takeoff and landing and holding vessel for V/STOL fighter aircraft. In order for Japan to prepare itself to be able to deter and prevent independently attacks on the Nansei Islands, particularly the Senkaku, Miyako, and Yaeyama islands, adding the F-35B operational capability to a 22DDH-class vessel is very meaningful. Moreover, it is also possible...."
OFO,
If I recall correctly, the US has leant heavily on Japan post '9/11' to reform their constitution, especially with respect to the deployment of the JSDF, hence why they had troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (albeit in 'reconstruction' roles). Furthermore, the US 'assisted' the JSDF to become much more multilateral in the maritime security field by getting their ships and MPA to participate in high seas MIO against vessels beleived to be carrying WMD precurser material, under the legally dubious 'Proliferation Security Initiative'.
Other countries in the Pacific Rim still feel rather uncomfortable about the overt military growth of Japan, beyond what are clearly self-defence means. I also recall a Dan Pletch lecture at RUSI where he asserted that Japan could be the next nuclear power - it has all the pieces, including launch bodies and fissile material (the latter heavily controlled and not reprocessed in Japan...but guess where?) - and more importantly, it has the perceived defensive need - DPRK and China providing two prescient reasons. Obviously there is an enormous (and possibly insurmountable) historical legacy associated with nuclear weapons, but the strategic leverage that the US and Japan could assert on China if Japan had an 'independent' capability would be enormous, akin to the Soviet Union placing weapons systems in Cuba...
...mind you, that didn't quite work out as intended!
If I recall correctly, the US has leant heavily on Japan post '9/11' to reform their constitution, especially with respect to the deployment of the JSDF, hence why they had troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (albeit in 'reconstruction' roles). Furthermore, the US 'assisted' the JSDF to become much more multilateral in the maritime security field by getting their ships and MPA to participate in high seas MIO against vessels beleived to be carrying WMD precurser material, under the legally dubious 'Proliferation Security Initiative'.
Other countries in the Pacific Rim still feel rather uncomfortable about the overt military growth of Japan, beyond what are clearly self-defence means. I also recall a Dan Pletch lecture at RUSI where he asserted that Japan could be the next nuclear power - it has all the pieces, including launch bodies and fissile material (the latter heavily controlled and not reprocessed in Japan...but guess where?) - and more importantly, it has the perceived defensive need - DPRK and China providing two prescient reasons. Obviously there is an enormous (and possibly insurmountable) historical legacy associated with nuclear weapons, but the strategic leverage that the US and Japan could assert on China if Japan had an 'independent' capability would be enormous, akin to the Soviet Union placing weapons systems in Cuba...
...mind you, that didn't quite work out as intended!
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Whenurhappy
I think people have got to move on from 1945 and realise we are in a different era
now. No countries or it's people are the same as they were back then.
Yes, some might feel uncomfortable but some might say the same
about Germany and Italy !
I think people have got to move on from 1945 and realise we are in a different era
now. No countries or it's people are the same as they were back then.
Yes, some might feel uncomfortable but some might say the same
about Germany and Italy !
A good bedtime read is Tom Clancy's Debt of Honour 
w.r.t Whenurhappy's point below
So 14 x SH-60J or include some of their mine hunting Merlins as well?
Cheers
w.r.t Whenurhappy's point below So 14 x SH-60J or include some of their mine hunting Merlins as well?
Cheers
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Not worth a separate thread just yet but the Indians have launched their indigenous aircraft carrier earlier this month too.
All ski ramped and ready to be fitted out; nice!
China won't be happy according to this article. No kidding.
'India's indigenous aircraft carrier a threat to China' - Economic Times
Better pictures here
Indian aircraft carrier: with first home-built aircraft, nation joins U.S., France, Russia and Britain in elite naval group | Mail Online
Cheers now
All ski ramped and ready to be fitted out; nice!
China won't be happy according to this article. No kidding.
'India's indigenous aircraft carrier a threat to China' - Economic Times
Better pictures here
Indian aircraft carrier: with first home-built aircraft, nation joins U.S., France, Russia and Britain in elite naval group | Mail Online
Cheers now
Last edited by oldgrubber; 23rd Aug 2013 at 23:19.
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I've worked with multiple JSDF officers and they are so far from the bat**** crazy WW2 officers of story that it's almost funny. The internal strife within their own culture/government wrt to a re-emergent military leads me to believe that it wouldn't be a problem.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
What a surprise.... not.
Making Izumo an aircraft carrier would boost alliance
Japan said to be interested in acquiring F-35Bs
Making Izumo an aircraft carrier would boost alliance
Japan said to be interested in acquiring F-35Bs
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I think if there is a worry about Japan its their potential. Vv rich, cutting edge technology etc means they could become a very serious military player quite quickly
But there is zero support for such a path...
Maybe in 150 years...
But there is zero support for such a path...
Maybe in 150 years...
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From ORAC's second link:
The Japan Self-Defense Force is barred from deploying military aircraft to Shimochijima airport, which has the longest runway in the Ryukyu Islands. Therefore, defense officials are thinking of using the F-35B at airports with shorter runways.
Pity that nobody makes a much less expensive fighter that can fly on and off a 1500-2000 meter runway all day long without breaking a sweat. Wait, what?
Otherwise, Izumo's size will limit its ability to support a large and complex (F-4-sized) aircraft, irrespective of how it takes off and lands.
The Japan Self-Defense Force is barred from deploying military aircraft to Shimochijima airport, which has the longest runway in the Ryukyu Islands. Therefore, defense officials are thinking of using the F-35B at airports with shorter runways.
Pity that nobody makes a much less expensive fighter that can fly on and off a 1500-2000 meter runway all day long without breaking a sweat. Wait, what?
Otherwise, Izumo's size will limit its ability to support a large and complex (F-4-sized) aircraft, irrespective of how it takes off and lands.
Wow, what a political zinger- and only 4 years after the post.....I believe we all know Clancy is in the fiction section....
Meanwhile getting back to the Izumo, I do note that her aft elevator is around 20x30 meters from this source: https://www.rina.org.uk/Izumo_class_...est_sense.html
just about right for a F-35B.....lucky coincidence
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
You know, for two nations that, historically, hate each others guts - this is a hell of a coincidence. The enemy of my enemy is my friend....
South Korea, Japan Mull F-35Bs for Amphibious Assault Ships
South Korea's navy is looking to buy stealthy F-35B aircraft, the Marine Corps jump-jet variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, for its new Dokdo-class amphibious assault ships. Citing military sources, South Korea's Yonhap news agency said the Lockheed Martin Corp.-made short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) F-35Bs would be part of South Korea's long-term plan to build a "blue water" navy.
South Korea currently has one amphibious assault ship, the 14,300-ton, 653-foot Dokdo, which is the largest ship in the South Korean navy. A second Dokdo-class amphib is planned for 2020. "I understand that the military top brass have recently discussed whether they can introduce a small number of F-35B fighters and operate them aboard the new ship that has already been deployed and one to be additionally built," a military source told Yonhap....
The problem for South Korea and Japan will be in redesigning the decks of the amphibs to take the heat and stress of the F-35B vertical landings. The Dokdo class ships now are configured to support 10 helicopters. "Considerations will continue about whether we can run F-35Bs by redesigning the decks of the Dokdo and the new ship that is being constructed," a second military source told Yonhap.
In 2014, South Korea agreed to buy 40 conventional landing and takeoff F-35A fighters, the Air Force variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, for deployment from 2018 through 2021 at a cost of $6.75 billion. The F-35B is the Marine Corps' variant and the F-35C is the Navy's......
South Korea, Japan Mull F-35Bs for Amphibious Assault Ships
South Korea's navy is looking to buy stealthy F-35B aircraft, the Marine Corps jump-jet variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, for its new Dokdo-class amphibious assault ships. Citing military sources, South Korea's Yonhap news agency said the Lockheed Martin Corp.-made short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) F-35Bs would be part of South Korea's long-term plan to build a "blue water" navy.
South Korea currently has one amphibious assault ship, the 14,300-ton, 653-foot Dokdo, which is the largest ship in the South Korean navy. A second Dokdo-class amphib is planned for 2020. "I understand that the military top brass have recently discussed whether they can introduce a small number of F-35B fighters and operate them aboard the new ship that has already been deployed and one to be additionally built," a military source told Yonhap....
The problem for South Korea and Japan will be in redesigning the decks of the amphibs to take the heat and stress of the F-35B vertical landings. The Dokdo class ships now are configured to support 10 helicopters. "Considerations will continue about whether we can run F-35Bs by redesigning the decks of the Dokdo and the new ship that is being constructed," a second military source told Yonhap.
In 2014, South Korea agreed to buy 40 conventional landing and takeoff F-35A fighters, the Air Force variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, for deployment from 2018 through 2021 at a cost of $6.75 billion. The F-35B is the Marine Corps' variant and the F-35C is the Navy's......