CIVIL IRs, the 7 year rule and military IRs - Good News!!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Sounds as though you are well placed English Patient, all the best.
One last thing. I was liaising with the CAA on behalf of the training dept when I had the conflicting advice from them. Many airline don't actually do the OCU's themselves choosing to let Type Rating Training Organisations (TRTO) shoulder the financial burden of Sims etc. The TRTOs were getting different answers from the CAA to the same questions I was asking regarding Green Ratings, it was a shambles.
My point is that in civvie street the onus is on the individual to ensure they are fully qualified for any training course as per their CV. Training Depts and TRTOs have due dilligence, but my best advice is to apply and hopefully present at interview fully squared away with no awkward questions regarding ratings or license outstanding.
Final, final thing if you are available IMMEDIATELY put it in big bold letters under your name on the CV
One last thing. I was liaising with the CAA on behalf of the training dept when I had the conflicting advice from them. Many airline don't actually do the OCU's themselves choosing to let Type Rating Training Organisations (TRTO) shoulder the financial burden of Sims etc. The TRTOs were getting different answers from the CAA to the same questions I was asking regarding Green Ratings, it was a shambles.
My point is that in civvie street the onus is on the individual to ensure they are fully qualified for any training course as per their CV. Training Depts and TRTOs have due dilligence, but my best advice is to apply and hopefully present at interview fully squared away with no awkward questions regarding ratings or license outstanding.
Final, final thing if you are available IMMEDIATELY put it in big bold letters under your name on the CV
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
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Is anyone aware of a business / service that exists to help those with ATPLs/CPLs navigate through the requirements and advise on what needs to be done ? I have a fairly complicated situation that I'm sure the CAA will answer with "Refer to CAP804" and I'd be quite happy to pay someone who could decipher the rules and apply them to me.
The likes of BEagle provide great information and frankly the time involved in working out such positions is worthy of reward IMO.
The likes of BEagle provide great information and frankly the time involved in working out such positions is worthy of reward IMO.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Hi Mach
Did you get a response from the CAA? I tried to resurrect my ATPL last Oct and was stunned when i was informed i would have to redo some exams having completed the whole shebang back in 2000. I see now that this may no longer be the case. My last unrestricted IRT was done on 16 Dec 06 on a C130K which by my maths make me still within the 7 year rule and a very similar situation to yourself, however, it still seems to be a bit of a lottery as to whether I come up with the right answer. If you have any reflections of useful info I would be very grateful. PM me if its easier. Thanks!
Did you get a response from the CAA? I tried to resurrect my ATPL last Oct and was stunned when i was informed i would have to redo some exams having completed the whole shebang back in 2000. I see now that this may no longer be the case. My last unrestricted IRT was done on 16 Dec 06 on a C130K which by my maths make me still within the 7 year rule and a very similar situation to yourself, however, it still seems to be a bit of a lottery as to whether I come up with the right answer. If you have any reflections of useful info I would be very grateful. PM me if its easier. Thanks!
Join Date: Jun 2013
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So I'm right in saying that if I have a licence opened with a type rating on an EASA approved RAF aircraft, this rule will not keep my type rating current each yar...?
Cheers!
Cheers!
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Still on the beach (but this one's cold).
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I did get a response from the CAA. It was very comprehensive and came back quite quickly. They would not allow the renewal I did 2 years ago as the rules then did not allow it. They did confirm that what I had done then would be valid if I did it now within the 7 years since my last unrestricted Green expired. They also confirmed that if I let the IR go by more than 7 years I would have lost the ATPL Theory too and would therefore need to do ALL of the academics again to get the frozen ATPL. Additionally they confirmed that my Tutor green rating "no GAT in Class A" as issued these days was in fact worthless for the 7 year rule. I have just redone my MEP class rating and ME-SPA-IR and will be dropping into Aviation House very soon. Hopefully what I have will be sufficient, I'd hate to have wasted another grand.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Thanks for taking the time to reply, it sounds as if we are in the same situation. I now have 4 months before I lose the lot then, time for action!! Where did you do your flying and would you recommend them? PM me if you prefer!
On the subject of hopefully a quick renewal anyone got any recommendations for schools? Also, what type of aircraft? Probably opening a can of worms and digressing but any help appreciated. Thanks!
On the subject of hopefully a quick renewal anyone got any recommendations for schools? Also, what type of aircraft? Probably opening a can of worms and digressing but any help appreciated. Thanks!
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Still on the beach (but this one's cold).
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4 months, luxury! I had 3 weeks from finding out the 7 year rule now applied to Mil IRs. I went through Airways Flight Training at Exeter, and they were once again brilliant. Good assessment of what I needed to satisfy training to the satisfaction of the ATO before test. Then a comprehensive test of IF and ME handling. The ac is a bit tired but perfect for the job and actually quite easy to fly if you are in current handling, not autopilot manipulating practice. I would have no hesitation in recommending them.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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No pressure then bud!
Just to confirm it is 7 years from the unrestricted green expiry as I was told today it was 7 years from issue which is critical for me. I took my last IRT on 20 Dec 06 so I reckon on your say I'm still okay but just want to make sure again!
I will speak to Exeter as they're only a bit down the road from me and get that booked after my medical next week at Gatwick. Not going to count any chickens on that one. I haven't flown for 6 years so I will probably need a bit, of a refresher. I had thought about doing it all on a DA42 because of the FADEC and Garmin toys but I'm used to pulleys, levers and steam so it may be best to delay my arrival in the brave new world until another time.
Thanks again for your help.
Just to confirm it is 7 years from the unrestricted green expiry as I was told today it was 7 years from issue which is critical for me. I took my last IRT on 20 Dec 06 so I reckon on your say I'm still okay but just want to make sure again!
I will speak to Exeter as they're only a bit down the road from me and get that booked after my medical next week at Gatwick. Not going to count any chickens on that one. I haven't flown for 6 years so I will probably need a bit, of a refresher. I had thought about doing it all on a DA42 because of the FADEC and Garmin toys but I'm used to pulleys, levers and steam so it may be best to delay my arrival in the brave new world until another time.
Thanks again for your help.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Still on the beach (but this one's cold).
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I had a frantic and quite productive e mail exchange with the CAA and asked some very specific questions. They have confirmed that the renewal needs to be done within 7 years of the expiry of your last unrestricted green rating. The Tutor for example is worthless for exemption purposes. They have also confirmed that they recognise the mil validity of 13 months. If you have previously had a SPA MEIR, then the renewal requires a precision and a non precision approach with some other ancillaries like holds, UPs and steep turns. I did the whole thing with an NDB and VOR/DME to ILS. Not sure you need to be paying for a swept up techy ac.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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More good news and on a Friday as well, time for more beer and curry.
Did my IRT on a Herc K so that should be alright I assume. 13 months gives me until January, luxury.
What does SPA mean, I'm not to up on the jargon I'm afraid?
How many hours did you have and did you use the sim? Take your point about techy stick with the good old needle chase I think.
Did my IRT on a Herc K so that should be alright I assume. 13 months gives me until January, luxury.
What does SPA mean, I'm not to up on the jargon I'm afraid?
How many hours did you have and did you use the sim? Take your point about techy stick with the good old needle chase I think.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Still on the beach (but this one's cold).
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Single Pilot Aircraft. I have not been fortunate enough to have to regularly share my cockpit with another qualified pilot. Take a day and try to read through CAP804, it should point you roughly in the right direction. Also worth e mailing the CAA to clarify what you need to do, they were pretty good at getting back to me. I think you are in a different situation to me, I was after a CPL/IR with ATPL Theory, not a full on ATPL. First time I've been unhappy about all the fast jet flying.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Thanks for that and I see what you did there 
i'd swap my hours for yours I'm sure!
I emailed the CAA at the beginning of the week so will hopefully hear soon, if not I have my Class 1 a week today so may drop in for a chat whilst I'm there.
CAP804 is a good idea but I know it will be time I will never get back. Truth is I joined to fly planes and that's all I want to do now. As someone pointed out earlier isn't there someone who is good at this
who can just do it for us? Oh woe is me.
i'd swap my hours for yours I'm sure!I emailed the CAA at the beginning of the week so will hopefully hear soon, if not I have my Class 1 a week today so may drop in for a chat whilst I'm there.
CAP804 is a good idea but I know it will be time I will never get back. Truth is I joined to fly planes and that's all I want to do now. As someone pointed out earlier isn't there someone who is good at this
who can just do it for us? Oh woe is me.
Thread Starter
From the source document:
The 7 years is clearly not from the date of issue - the Unrestricted Green IR must have been valid in the 7 years before the date of application.
The 7 years is clearly not from the date of issue - the Unrestricted Green IR must have been valid in the 7 years before the date of application.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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That's great BEagle thanks for clarifying that. Very glad I didn't spend time and money redoing the exams last year! Thanks once again to yourself and others who have given their time and effort into getting this matter resolved. I'm very grateful and will happily chuck some money in the pot for your favoured charity, just let me know, after the time and money you've saved me its the least I could do.
