QWI Course
Thread Starter
QWI Course
Chaps, quick question: who 'owns' the QWI Course process, how are students selected and is it seen as career enhancing?
More than willing to take to PM and/or DII as necessary.
More than willing to take to PM and/or DII as necessary.
I was in the SO1 Trg job at 1 Gp until I left. I used to do the final selection with OC Staff QWIs for each platform and a poster. Being a QWI certainly won't do your career any harm - more importantly it's the best flying qual you can have.
Thread Starter
As a non-WAFU, QWI is not open to me, however I am curious (from a RN sense), how the process of creating a 'QWI' came about. At the moment we have Surface Warfare Instructors who either turn up and cuff it - on the basis of them being 'good eggs' - or want a quiet life in Portsmouth and don't mind the effective career foul for 3 - 4 years.
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Alfred, think of QWI as equivalent to a PWO in the RN and you won't be far off.
QWI isn't compulsory for rapid advancement in the RAF, but if you look at Sqn bosses and Stn Cdrs the vast majority, in the FJ world, are QWIs and those that don't get FJ sqns/stns often get the other sqns/stns (Valley, Waddo..).
QWI isn't compulsory for rapid advancement in the RAF, but if you look at Sqn bosses and Stn Cdrs the vast majority, in the FJ world, are QWIs and those that don't get FJ sqns/stns often get the other sqns/stns (Valley, Waddo..).
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QWI quals
Beg to disagree slightly with courtney on his view that qwi is the best flying qual you can have. I know times have changed a bit, but in my view test pilot is still the best flying qual you can have. Most useful of all the fast jet test pilots were those who had worked as qwis first, but such overqualification is probably rare nowadays!
Agree entirely that it won't do your career any harm - I found it very worthwhile! Good luck!
Agree entirely that it won't do your career any harm - I found it very worthwhile! Good luck!
Manandboy,
As a QWI, would you really have expected me to say anything else? Seriously, though, perhaps better to say the best qual for the front line. Most sqns don't need a TP.
As a QWI, would you really have expected me to say anything else? Seriously, though, perhaps better to say the best qual for the front line. Most sqns don't need a TP.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 7th Jun 2013 at 19:16.
Cannot agree with you Manandboy! As a squadron QWI you are at the frontline when it comes to formulating the tactics and use of the weapons employed in your role. Add to this the instructional role and you have a much more advanced qualification than mere testing to point of release to service!
It may have changed and I'm sure the TP qualification is far more useful in civilian life but QWI is what all fronline squadron pilots should aspire to. It shows they have learnt their trade and are able to give something back to the new boys on the squadron.
It may have changed and I'm sure the TP qualification is far more useful in civilian life but QWI is what all fronline squadron pilots should aspire to. It shows they have learnt their trade and are able to give something back to the new boys on the squadron.
This hurts....................
But I have to agree with newt!!!!!
How many Sqn Cdrs/Stn Cdrs are ex-TPs?
Great qual, maybe, for subsequent jobs, but for career RAF............???
I was QWI HAR and JAG - I don't think it held me back.
By the way, for what it is worth, IMHO, the best job in the RAF is Squadron Commander.
But I have to agree with newt!!!!!
How many Sqn Cdrs/Stn Cdrs are ex-TPs?
Great qual, maybe, for subsequent jobs, but for career RAF............???
I was QWI HAR and JAG - I don't think it held me back.
By the way, for what it is worth, IMHO, the best job in the RAF is Squadron Commander.
Last edited by ex-fast-jets; 7th Jun 2013 at 19:37.
Excuse me for butting-in on a 'Master Race' topic but my lad was a Jag QWI, then TP (trained with the Frogs) and when back at Boscombe became CR again on the Jag Force. I think at the time he was the only CR TP and vice-versa.
It cost him 4-5 years in the climb up the slippery pole. Desk officer tried to talk him out of going TP as he was next in line for Flt Cdr on the Jag (this was Summer of '99). He declined and despite coming top of the French TP course did not get his scraper until 2004; what a way to run an air force! No wonder they couldn't keep him at his 38 point in 2007!!!!!
It cost him 4-5 years in the climb up the slippery pole. Desk officer tried to talk him out of going TP as he was next in line for Flt Cdr on the Jag (this was Summer of '99). He declined and despite coming top of the French TP course did not get his scraper until 2004; what a way to run an air force! No wonder they couldn't keep him at his 38 point in 2007!!!!!
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Not withstanding QWI, it would seem to me that the most important "qualifications" required by the RAF are those pertaining to fitness tests and minorities awareness, closely followed by CCS and mandatory security training about laptops etc. If you don't pass these tests then you are out!!!
Thanks Bomber!! I do believe you still owe me a beer!!!
HAR must have held you back but JAG accelerated you to the heights!!
HAR must have held you back but JAG accelerated you to the heights!!
Last edited by newt; 7th Jun 2013 at 21:43.
a the g: "As a non-WAFU, QWI is not open to me, however I am curious (from a RN sense), how the process of creating a 'QWI' came about."
Before my QWI days the qualification had been developed from the merging of several streams. I think in the RN it was the AWI (?) and in the RAF the FAI (?). Something like this.
Before my QWI days the qualification had been developed from the merging of several streams. I think in the RN it was the AWI (?) and in the RAF the FAI (?). Something like this.
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Not sure if anyone has answered the question.
Squadrons nominate candidates and a board decides who will attend. Ops Div at AWC owns the collective responsibility. It may have changed since I left AWC but at that time it was:
Collective ground school at AWC Cranwell
Back to OCUs for individual type training
AWC for CQWI flying phase at Kinloss
Central briefings/projects.
Squadrons nominate candidates and a board decides who will attend. Ops Div at AWC owns the collective responsibility. It may have changed since I left AWC but at that time it was:
Collective ground school at AWC Cranwell
Back to OCUs for individual type training
AWC for CQWI flying phase at Kinloss
Central briefings/projects.
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On the subject of "best qualification" to have, I suppose it depends on the role the individual is expected to undertake. QWI, QWI(ISR), TP will be employed in different roles. Once moved on which qual looks best on a CV is probably a matter of opinion.
As for the non 2 winged master race I thought the asq qual was pretty highly regarded.
As for the non 2 winged master race I thought the asq qual was pretty highly regarded.
Last edited by PFMG; 8th Jun 2013 at 07:51.
Many fast jet tps were QWIs before becoming a tp. This is not surprising because the professional capabilities required for both jobs are much the same - above average pilots with a good analytical brain. As a tp it really helped if you were a QWI as well if you became involved in weapon delivery and weapon development trials. The fundamental difference between the two specialisations is that a QWI takes an aircraft and its weapons system and develops tactics and procedures to get the best out of it operationally whereas a tp helps to develop and get into service the aircraft/systems on which the tactics are then developed. One qualification is not better than the other and both specialisations are needed.
Probably the most satisfying flight test programme on which I worked was the integration of TIALD on the Jaguar. The systems development flying was done in a T2 and for about 90% of the sorties it was crewed by one tp and one QWI; that was combined testing at its best and most efficient!
Probably the most satisfying flight test programme on which I worked was the integration of TIALD on the Jaguar. The systems development flying was done in a T2 and for about 90% of the sorties it was crewed by one tp and one QWI; that was combined testing at its best and most efficient!
Last edited by LOMCEVAK; 8th Jun 2013 at 12:02.
BBadanov:
Before my QWI days the qualification had been developed from the merging of several streams. I think in the RN it was the AWI (?) and in the RAF the FAI (?). Something like this.
The RN (FAA) certainly used to have the letters AWI (my father was one back in the day). The lack of current fixed wing may have changed that..........I'm sure somebody with more knowedge will come back with an answer.
TN.
Before my QWI days the qualification had been developed from the merging of several streams. I think in the RN it was the AWI (?) and in the RAF the FAI (?). Something like this.
The RN (FAA) certainly used to have the letters AWI (my father was one back in the day). The lack of current fixed wing may have changed that..........I'm sure somebody with more knowedge will come back with an answer.
TN.
TT,
IIRC the RN now has the AvWO qual, with specialisation ASuW and ASW (can a WAFU confirm?). Junglies do the QHTI course run by the JHC OEU. No doubt the future F35 force will have a standard QWI course for both users - who knows, we might even get to a joint flying phase for QWI(FJ)/QWI(ISR)QHTI/QMETI...probably the only way enough assets can be in one place to make the course worthwhile!!
IIRC the RN now has the AvWO qual, with specialisation ASuW and ASW (can a WAFU confirm?). Junglies do the QHTI course run by the JHC OEU. No doubt the future F35 force will have a standard QWI course for both users - who knows, we might even get to a joint flying phase for QWI(FJ)/QWI(ISR)QHTI/QMETI...probably the only way enough assets can be in one place to make the course worthwhile!!
Before my QWI days the qualification had been developed from the merging of several streams. I think in the RN it was the AWI (?) and in the RAF the FAI (?). Something like this.
The RN (FAA) certainly used to have the letters AWI (my father was one back in the day). The lack of current fixed wing may have changed that..........I'm sure somebody with more knowedge will come back with an answer.
TN.
TN,
the RN AWI qual was the Air Warfare Instructor.
The RAF had, I think, the FAI - Fighter Attack Instructor.
I think the FAI qual was run by a TWU, and did not initially extend to individual aircraft types run by an OCU - I may be wrong.
Anyway, I think CTTO (Johnny Walker maybe?) developed this into individual type qualifications then run by the OCUs, which became the QWI qual.
The QWI concept is used by different air forces around the world. USAF has FWIC. RAAF has FCI.
The RN (FAA) certainly used to have the letters AWI (my father was one back in the day). The lack of current fixed wing may have changed that..........I'm sure somebody with more knowedge will come back with an answer.
TN.
TN,
the RN AWI qual was the Air Warfare Instructor.
The RAF had, I think, the FAI - Fighter Attack Instructor.
I think the FAI qual was run by a TWU, and did not initially extend to individual aircraft types run by an OCU - I may be wrong.
Anyway, I think CTTO (Johnny Walker maybe?) developed this into individual type qualifications then run by the OCUs, which became the QWI qual.
The QWI concept is used by different air forces around the world. USAF has FWIC. RAAF has FCI.