Woolwich
Originally Posted by dazdaz1
So why did not the barrack (armed soldiers) come to help?
a. Armed.
b. Aware of what was taking-place in a location not in the immediate vicinity of their post.
c. Permitted under their orders to intervene in a public-order scenario where the Police were in attendance, in a country where the Police have primacy in such events.
Last edited by diginagain; 25th May 2013 at 18:28.
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Better still, allow servicemen to carry a firearm for self protection.
Just like they did when in Northern Ireland in past years.
Might have to buy a large quantity of new weapons though!
Just like they did when in Northern Ireland in past years.
Might have to buy a large quantity of new weapons though!
Originally Posted by Out Of Trim
Better still, allow servicemen to carry a firearm for self protection.
Just how Drummer Rigby would have been able to defend himself having just been knocked off his feet by a car escapes me.
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It wouldn't have saved the unfortunate Drummer Rigby (RIP); however, now serviceman are fully aware that they are not safe to walk the streets of our own country.
It might save someone in the future and they would not be such soft targets!
It might save someone in the future and they would not be such soft targets!
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It is good the two peices of filth involved in this murder were taken alive so they can be interrogated-hopefully robustly.Personally I would like to see them connected to the electric mains if it gets answers out of then as to who helped them and who they are associated with.
Death is an easy release for them,maybe it is better they spend the next 40 or 50 years forever looking over their shoulders wondering when the next punch/kick/blade/pot of boiling water is going to hit them.And boy,do I hope they suffer in prison for the rest of their pathetic little lives.
These two should NOT benefit from any legal assistance or have access to any lawyers or social workers or prison visitors ever-just locked away from sunlight with food mixed with the waste from other prisoners in a vile prison with no amenities whatsoever.
They should also be denied the right to any religous observance whatsoever.
In future Britain should build a prison in somewhere like South Georgia to house scum of this nature.
And for those inmates sent there there should be no return.
Death is an easy release for them,maybe it is better they spend the next 40 or 50 years forever looking over their shoulders wondering when the next punch/kick/blade/pot of boiling water is going to hit them.And boy,do I hope they suffer in prison for the rest of their pathetic little lives.
These two should NOT benefit from any legal assistance or have access to any lawyers or social workers or prison visitors ever-just locked away from sunlight with food mixed with the waste from other prisoners in a vile prison with no amenities whatsoever.
They should also be denied the right to any religous observance whatsoever.
In future Britain should build a prison in somewhere like South Georgia to house scum of this nature.
And for those inmates sent there there should be no return.
Last edited by Thaihawk; 25th May 2013 at 18:43.
[quote][woptb, I was going to prefix this post using the words "sorry but" or similar, but I would have been lying.
Leaps to conclusion of the nature and quality of yours are more akin to those heard in a primary school or kindergarten.
Go away and bother someone else you silly fellow /QUOTE]
Come,come chum when you agree with inflammatory statements,the like of :-
Even nursery school kids have some self awareness. Hang on I'll just add a frightfully witty emoticon to reinforce the point
Leaps to conclusion of the nature and quality of yours are more akin to those heard in a primary school or kindergarten.
Go away and bother someone else you silly fellow /QUOTE]
Come,come chum when you agree with inflammatory statements,the like of :-
long before the irreversible demographic turning point is reached, life in Britain will be flavored with regional events like public beheadings, honor killings and religious bombings.
Last edited by woptb; 25th May 2013 at 18:47.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
You assume that the gate-guard were;
a. Armed.
b. Aware of what was taking-place in a location not in the immediate vicinity of their post.
c. Permitted under their orders to intervene in a public-order scenario where the Police were in attendance, in a country where the Police have primacy in such events.
a. Armed.
b. Aware of what was taking-place in a location not in the immediate vicinity of their post.
c. Permitted under their orders to intervene in a public-order scenario where the Police were in attendance, in a country where the Police have primacy in such events.
Then we have to consider the throng of civilians around the scene.
Military rounds are also not best suited to us in this environment. They have jacketed rounds in accordance with the Geneva Convention. The Civpol OTOH have unjacketed rounds to reduce the possibility of rounds passing through their target and injuring others.
Perhaps military armed guards in UK should be provided with unjacketed rounds?
As an after thought, you can legislate and ban racism but you cannot alter people's minds. My MiL was raised when the UK population was largely white. She is scared of anyone that does not look or behave as she was brought up to expect - unkempt people of druggist appearance, and coloured man etc etc simply scare her. I am sure that her feelings are echoed by many of her generation that live in middle England and outside the big cities.
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Perhaps military armed guards in UK should be provided with unjacketed
rounds?
Had the gate-guard reacted to what may have appeared at first inspection to have been an RTA, would they have been in any position to engage the assailants, or would they have simply provided more victims to assault?
I have to agree. el grifos comment was ludicrous.
What comment was that pls.
Of out now, but if it anything vaguely sensible I will get back to you later
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el grifo. I don't know whether you are Christian or not, but I'll take a stab in the dark and say you are. given that Christians have cause by far the most atrocities/deaths over the centuries am I therefore to brand you and all Christians terrorists? these were two deluded and deranged individuals. but to blame the entire Muslim faith is ignorant in the extreme.
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Veering off thread a little,
Firstly, some British police are trusted to carry firearms (as shown the other day) but it is generally they who don't wish to be routinely armed. Surveys by the Police Federation regularly show a reluctance by rank and file police officers to carry firearms for a number of reasons.
Secondly, (without wishing to sound like I'm making light of it) the state of Massachusettes has both police who are routinely armed and a CCP scheme, how has that worked out recently with regards preventing terrorism?
Not every crime can be stopped by guns being near by, especially not if the criminals (as in the Woolwich case) seem like they want to be helped on their way to all those virgins 'suicide by police' style.
Still trying to figure out why British police are not trusted to carry fire arms. Despite what the mainsteam media write, in the USA thousands of crimes are prevented each year by citizens with concealed carry permits. Too bad one of them wasn't nearby to save this young soldier's life.
Secondly, (without wishing to sound like I'm making light of it) the state of Massachusettes has both police who are routinely armed and a CCP scheme, how has that worked out recently with regards preventing terrorism?
Not every crime can be stopped by guns being near by, especially not if the criminals (as in the Woolwich case) seem like they want to be helped on their way to all those virgins 'suicide by police' style.
Last edited by The Helpful Stacker; 25th May 2013 at 20:21.
Originally Posted by dazdaz1
So why did not the barrack (armed soldiers) come to help?
So why did not the barrack (armed soldiers) come to help?
I suspect that is more of a rhetorical question than anything given the current litigious nature of society but possibly an interesting question for the Legads and CCS if we really are going down the route of military personnel being 'fair game' for pretty much anyone who disagrees with anything we have done over the past couple of centuries.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I found your terse responses to multiple, and sometimes unattributed, posts difficult to follow. I had to read back to the OP then try and read your selective answer.
I have no idea of your argument (I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing) and I am simply confused. If you are more explicit then all may become clearer.
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I did have a similar hypothetical thought along those lines. IF the guard force had full view of what was going on from the start of the incident and IF they knew that the individual being attacked was military and their life was in immediate and mortal danger and IF they had constant PID on the attackers, where would they have been on RoE grounds regarding engaging the attackers?
Last edited by Justanopinion; 25th May 2013 at 20:42.
Justanopinion,
That's what I would have thought - and I'm pretty sure if it went to court, any reasonably sane jury would agree. But this is the MOD and its very special breed of touchy feely Legads and a fairly liberal ruling elite making the rules we are talking about here!
That's what I would have thought - and I'm pretty sure if it went to court, any reasonably sane jury would agree. But this is the MOD and its very special breed of touchy feely Legads and a fairly liberal ruling elite making the rules we are talking about here!
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Since the attack, a number of people have been charged by police after allegedly offensive messages were posted on social media websites.
These include a 22-year-old man from Lincoln, a 28-year-old man from London, a 23-year-old woman from Southsea, and a 19-year-old man from Woking.
Three men - two from Gateshead and one from Stockton - have been arrested by Northumbria Police on suspicion of posting racist tweets.
These include a 22-year-old man from Lincoln, a 28-year-old man from London, a 23-year-old woman from Southsea, and a 19-year-old man from Woking.
Three men - two from Gateshead and one from Stockton - have been arrested by Northumbria Police on suspicion of posting racist tweets.
Having seen some very offensive posts (to my mind) about Drummer Rigby's murder including one FB group saying that "Lee Rigby was a rapist and deserved to die", no one has been arrested over these posts yet.
Last edited by November4; 25th May 2013 at 21:37.
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No guarantees
Firearms do not come with guarantees that they will help in every case. However, had this soldier been armed, or had the first police on the scene been armed, no one can convince me that this innocent young man's life might not have been saved. I am not concerned in the least that these two heartless muslim murderers might have been shot. Evidently the police who first arrived were forced (?) to stand around and "watch" til armed police arrived! This is the result of incredibly foolish policy. Those unfamiliar with firearms often seem to believe, as do many liberals in the USA, that firearms are inherently evil and that police cannot be trusted to use them properly.
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Evidently the police who first arrived were forced (?) to stand around and "watch" til armed police arrived! This is the result of incredibly foolish policy
Shame they didn't simply run the scroat with the gun over...
It's a sad indication of the way things have gone in the UK, though to be fair I have seen similar items in the US.
See
999 crews: We can't rescue drowning man from 3ft pond... it's too DEEP - Mirror Online