Cpl Wearing Pilot Wings
In the RNZAF, General Service Hands were aircraftsmen & women employed in menial duties (stewards, batmen, messengers, gash hands, storemen, drivers etc...). They were Territorial Air Force and therefore could not be deployed or posted away, but they could also be discharged with 2 week's notice and serve to 65. In effect, a very useful bunch of guys and girls, and almost all of them were ex-Service (quite a few ex RAF).
I recall in 1985, as an Officer Cadet, we ate in the Airmen's Mess at RNZAF Wigram for the first couple of weeks. On one occasion, everyone was in SDs (No 3s, out there) and there were at least two GSHs wearing war-time medal ribbons and one had a Navigator's brevet. He was the Base Messenger, IIRC and I remember seeing him in shirt-sleeves, pedalling around on his delivery bike with a highly polished metal brevet, polished to the point that the letter 'N' was no longer distinguishable. I'm sure that there are one or two PPruners who might remember the chap. Joe, I think, was his name.
I recall in 1985, as an Officer Cadet, we ate in the Airmen's Mess at RNZAF Wigram for the first couple of weeks. On one occasion, everyone was in SDs (No 3s, out there) and there were at least two GSHs wearing war-time medal ribbons and one had a Navigator's brevet. He was the Base Messenger, IIRC and I remember seeing him in shirt-sleeves, pedalling around on his delivery bike with a highly polished metal brevet, polished to the point that the letter 'N' was no longer distinguishable. I'm sure that there are one or two PPruners who might remember the chap. Joe, I think, was his name.
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 16th May 2013 at 15:19.
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SOSL,
Sir Colin Terry was one of those Engineers who had wings through the scheme you mention. he told me all about it when I attended a presentation to a good mate of his award for Airworthines at BZN circa 2004 ish. At the time he had retired form the Cheif Engineers job and held VR Flying Officer tabs providing Air Experience for cadets and UAS or something. He had shed the gold braid. It was odd seeing him alongside my Gp Capt in the photo shoot.
Now I found him a nice guy but some I worked with who had fallen foul of his temper in the past thought othrewise. He was a Director of Meggitt at the time and offered his assistance to my project. A few weeks after we met at the Farnborough Airshow in the Meggit challet. True to his word he made it known to the Meggit guys that he was aware of our project. They did not let us down! Perhaps they knew of his reputation for not taking prisoners!
Sir Colin Terry was one of those Engineers who had wings through the scheme you mention. he told me all about it when I attended a presentation to a good mate of his award for Airworthines at BZN circa 2004 ish. At the time he had retired form the Cheif Engineers job and held VR Flying Officer tabs providing Air Experience for cadets and UAS or something. He had shed the gold braid. It was odd seeing him alongside my Gp Capt in the photo shoot.
Now I found him a nice guy but some I worked with who had fallen foul of his temper in the past thought othrewise. He was a Director of Meggitt at the time and offered his assistance to my project. A few weeks after we met at the Farnborough Airshow in the Meggit challet. True to his word he made it known to the Meggit guys that he was aware of our project. They did not let us down! Perhaps they knew of his reputation for not taking prisoners!
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Re: the scheme for engineers, did a similar scheme ever exist for other branches? ISTR my old man (medical branch) talking about doctors in the 50's and 60's having the opportunity to get some form of flying training (to wings standard?).
I know he was encouraged to fly as often as he could during his time in the 80s and has an enviable record of pax trips. Shame he hates flying really...!
I know he was encouraged to fly as often as he could during his time in the 80s and has an enviable record of pax trips. Shame he hates flying really...!
Dunky - I'm pretty sure that post WW2 no-one ever went to bed as a sergeant and woke up with a commission unless they had spent the previous few months at Henlow, Feltwell or wherever. There were quite a few NCO/Master Aircrew on my OCTU course at Feltwell in 1964 all of whom had to work for their commissions like the rest of us, although I have to admit they did better, on average, than those who had come in straight from civilian life. During training they wore no badges of rank and were classified as officer cadets (aircraftman equivalent), although they continued to be paid at the rate of their former rank.
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Jaime
Yes, there was also a similar scheme for doctors. I knew one of them quite well. He later specialised in aviation medicine. Well you would wouldn't you?
I don't think there was a similar scheme for any other ground branches, but there was always a steady trickle of ground branch JOs applying to re-muster into the GD branch, some of whom went on to be well regarded aviators.
Also, when the GD branch was opened to women (1985 IIRC) there was a small surge of women in ground branches applying to join. I remember one of them from my own station, at the time.
When her application reached her Wg Cdr (ground branch), he interviewed her and suggested that she would never make a pilot as long as she possessed a certain bodily orifice.
She went on to fly C130 for many years!
Rgds SOS
I don't think there was a similar scheme for any other ground branches, but there was always a steady trickle of ground branch JOs applying to re-muster into the GD branch, some of whom went on to be well regarded aviators.
Also, when the GD branch was opened to women (1985 IIRC) there was a small surge of women in ground branches applying to join. I remember one of them from my own station, at the time.
When her application reached her Wg Cdr (ground branch), he interviewed her and suggested that she would never make a pilot as long as she possessed a certain bodily orifice.
She went on to fly C130 for many years!
Rgds SOS
Last edited by SOSL; 16th May 2013 at 12:51.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I was at someone's house a few years ago who had been a Sgt aircrew, IIRC he was a Nav. When they decided all aircrew should be commissioned, he went to bed one day as a Sgt, and woke up the next day with a commission. He had all his old log books which he showed me, they made interesting reading.
As both had done a full 12 months nav course with a predominantly officer course it may have been judged that they had had sufficient training for a quick laying on of hands. I met the latter in the club many years later but didn't ask him when he got his commission.
Later, in 1967, we had a couple of sgt nav, remustered to ops SNCOs as their flying opportunities had ceased. I think they had forgone flying pay. They certainly worked down to their pay grade rather than up to their skill level and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. They had had too many bollockings for 'exceeding their authority'. Sad really.
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Halton, early 1970's - Cpl receptionist in Dental Centre, wearing Pilot's wings & replete with WW2 gongs.
Also, my first Eng O at Valley in '73 wore wings.
HB
Also, my first Eng O at Valley in '73 wore wings.
HB
Last edited by Halton Brat; 16th May 2013 at 15:18.
Sir Colin has quite a reputation for being, amongst other things, forthright. I was SDO at Benson c 1997 when I learned that Sir Colin was in-bound to fly at the AEF. He arrived late and I met him in my No 1s. He was surprisingly down-to-earth and expected no extra attention. We happendd to know each other from teh RAFSA fraternity. More recently (last year), I ran into him at the RAF Club and it was he that recognised me...
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Dunky - I'm pretty sure that post WW2 no-one ever went to bed as a sergeant and woke up with a commission unless they had spent the previous few months at Henlow, Feltwell or wherever. There were quite a few NCO/Master Aircrew on my OCTU course at Feltwell in 1964 all of whom had to work for their commissions like the rest of us, although I have to admit they did better, on average, than those who had come in straight from civilian life. During training they wore no badges of rank and were classified as officer cadets (aircraftman equivalent), although they continued to be paid at the rate of their former rank.
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TANKERTRASHNAV
I too knew a rock ape with pilots wings-- he was my dad.
He was a QFI but at the end of the war was one of many deemed to be superflous. So they were given a choice - Admin, Provost, Catering ,Padre, Supply or RAF Regiment. Being an outdoor sporty type he opted for the The Regiment and had a great time. 2 Armoured Car - Habbaniya, Adj at RAF Watchet, 40mm bofors school (bet you never head of that place) and later a Field Squadron at Celle. I followed his career closely -because I HAD TO -I was dragged around these places as a school boy. I retained a regard for the Regiment because I met some real characters over the years - But it not for me -far too energetic
I too knew a rock ape with pilots wings-- he was my dad.
He was a QFI but at the end of the war was one of many deemed to be superflous. So they were given a choice - Admin, Provost, Catering ,Padre, Supply or RAF Regiment. Being an outdoor sporty type he opted for the The Regiment and had a great time. 2 Armoured Car - Habbaniya, Adj at RAF Watchet, 40mm bofors school (bet you never head of that place) and later a Field Squadron at Celle. I followed his career closely -because I HAD TO -I was dragged around these places as a school boy. I retained a regard for the Regiment because I met some real characters over the years - But it not for me -far too energetic
The AAC ran with the concept of Corporal Pilots for a while in the late 1980s. Not universally popular, but it did result in some raised eyebrows when two of us pitched-up at Gutersloh in a Lynx.
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Knarfw
Here are the names anyway, it might help you.
I THINK the guy you are talking about if they are the same group
is Phil Bergenham.
Summer 1963, a Goose Bay ATC staff picture. Ron Hay provides the names:
Front row - L to R: Phil Bergenham (VR), Joe Kovalenko (EG), Elmer Tomecek (WG), Eric Staples supervisor(QM), Len Kalicheck (EG), "Doc" Elliot (UL)
Back row, left to right; our secretary Alberta Vautour, George Machum (QM) Chief, Irv Simmons, supervisor (QX), Sid Bowers (QM), Ken Vryenhoek (VR) and Henry Boduc (UL).
Here are the names anyway, it might help you.
I THINK the guy you are talking about if they are the same group
is Phil Bergenham.
Summer 1963, a Goose Bay ATC staff picture. Ron Hay provides the names:
Front row - L to R: Phil Bergenham (VR), Joe Kovalenko (EG), Elmer Tomecek (WG), Eric Staples supervisor(QM), Len Kalicheck (EG), "Doc" Elliot (UL)
Back row, left to right; our secretary Alberta Vautour, George Machum (QM) Chief, Irv Simmons, supervisor (QX), Sid Bowers (QM), Ken Vryenhoek (VR) and Henry Boduc (UL).
Ron Cake - Very interesting, I wonder if he was the bloke I remembered in the mid 60's? I cant for the life of me remember his name but he was a wiry fit looking bloke as I recall. If you'd care to PM with the name to jog my memory I can promise I won't be spreading it around the forum!
Certainly have heard of it - one of my sergeants had been there and was always going on about it!
Adj at RAF Watchet, 40mm bofors school (bet you never head of that place)