Here it comes: Syria
Where is this eastern BLOC and which countries belong to it? ........
Did you get the news what happened during the last 25 years? etc etc...
Did you get the news what happened during the last 25 years? etc etc...
To be even more clear, I am referring to the latest MiGs and Sukhois, HMS, the latest AA missiles, etc...
You can be sure this simply won't happen. The Russians are not stupid and Obama will also make sure upfront that nothing gets out of hand. .........This thing isn't important enough for either side to risk anything serious.
But in the meantime you may wish to catch up the news of the last 42 years in terms of US economic policy, then let us know if another war is important to the US or not. If you think this is about all nerve gas, you're woefully naive.
But for the record, I hope you're right about Scenario 'A' because 'B' potentially involves a lot more countries than just Russia and Syria on the Red team.
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I seem to remember some hubbub in relation to Kosovo as well. Don't know if we ever were close to any disaster of that sort. Pristina airport?
I don't expect the Russians to step it up, but it would surely suck. How would people feel about facing R-77s and such?
I don't expect the Russians to step it up, but it would surely suck. How would people feel about facing R-77s and such?
Last edited by LS-4; 31st Aug 2013 at 11:37.
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I wasn't impressed by the comments of some of the politicians following the vote, notably Paddy Ashdown, Menzies Campbell, and Bob Stewart. Drifting off thread, it was the latter of course who demonstrated how not to check for land mines or IED's in Bosnia. If you haven't seen the film, after a vehicle hit a land mine, he leant out of the back of his rover, and with his head directly over the the road, dumped his webbing on the road to check for mines! The only one that impressed me was Lord Dannatt.
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The 'No' vote was probably one of the worst events in British political history for a long, long time and those who rejoice at it either don't see the big picture or their motives and political persuasion are seriously suspect.
The alliance of the USA, UK and France was bringing very heavy pressure to bear and eventually Putin would have had to step in and advise Assad to desist permanently from gas attacks. The 'No' vote has immediately taken all the pressure off Putin and I doubt he has finished laughing his socks off at the disarray of the alliance. One has to wonder where Milliband takes his instructions from.
The alliance of the USA, UK and France was bringing very heavy pressure to bear and eventually Putin would have had to step in and advise Assad to desist permanently from gas attacks. The 'No' vote has immediately taken all the pressure off Putin and I doubt he has finished laughing his socks off at the disarray of the alliance. One has to wonder where Milliband takes his instructions from.
Or if not, what is the scenario?
Do you assume the Russians to send a hand full of Aircraft down there with their own pilots in order for them to get shot down within hours?
Or do you rather expect Russia to dislocate more than 30% of its active inventory of Fighter Aircraft down there within a few days in order to stand a reasonable chance to survive Day 1?
Where would all these Russian planes be stationed?
In Syria? In order to get shot down by rebels or destroyed on the ground by airstrikes/Tomahawks?
What will then be the next step of Russia?
Honestly I have some difficulties imagining a realistic scenario for your 'doomsday' scenario.
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Well it showed labours true colours, not worried about the world stage, but simply about gaining political points over the opposition, there was no reason the vote couldn't have been carried subject to the clauses set out re evidence, it was Milliband simply scoring short term gains.. If proof had been laid out and it was clear and unambiguous then action should have maybe been taken, it wasn't and it isn't.
However
The USA has showing its true colours after the vote by suddenly becoming Frances best friend and snubbing the UK like some petulant child... Right or wrong that is how it's panned out and we still are supporting them probably base wise.. Was it right, history will write that answer, however given the chance I bet a lot of the US populace would have voted against it too...
..
However
The USA has showing its true colours after the vote by suddenly becoming Frances best friend and snubbing the UK like some petulant child... Right or wrong that is how it's panned out and we still are supporting them probably base wise.. Was it right, history will write that answer, however given the chance I bet a lot of the US populace would have voted against it too...
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 31st Aug 2013 at 13:22.
Do we know what Secret Alliances are in place between Russia and Syria?
Could there be an agreement that would bring them into the mix as a hostile force acting against Syria's aggressors?
Is that a risk Odumbo should be taking?
We are being seen as weak and vulnerable to some degree by Putin and others....and that does not make for our being able to "go it alone" and damn the torpedoes and all that kind of stuff.
Could there be an agreement that would bring them into the mix as a hostile force acting against Syria's aggressors?
Is that a risk Odumbo should be taking?
We are being seen as weak and vulnerable to some degree by Putin and others....and that does not make for our being able to "go it alone" and damn the torpedoes and all that kind of stuff.
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No, I'm not. Not that it would make much of a difference, though.
I was curious to understand YOUR scenario not that of some Tin Foil Hats out there in tha interweb...
Again, I don't give a flyin' f*ck what some lunatics out there think/write/post. We had a link or two here of that species.
If that is your scenario, then -thank you- I can do without.
No, won't waste my time reading further into it.
I was curious to know if you are one of 'them' or if I misjudged you/your post. Seems unfortunately, I did not.
You obviously have an internet connection - might be time to use it.
In the meantime if you RTFP you may gain slightly more insight. Possibly not though because as you readily admit you do have some difficulties.
If that is your scenario, then -thank you- I can do without.
No, won't waste my time reading further into it.
I was curious to know if you are one of 'them' or if I misjudged you/your post. Seems unfortunately, I did not.
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The USA has showing its true colours after the vote by suddenly becoming Frances best friend and snubbing the UK like some petulant child... Right or wrong that is how it's panned out and we still are supporting them probably base wise
Has anyone told Obama/Kerry which country allowed the USA to launch attacks on Libyan bases in 1986 from its shores...........and which country denied them overflight rights?
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I agree, it was a real kick in the teeth for the UK when John Kerry described France as the USA's oldest ally.
What the heck else would you expect them to emphasise just after their erstwhile "Best Ally" had just publicly and shamefully kicked them in the teeth?
Anyway, Oldest Ally is historically true after all...
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 31st Aug 2013 at 16:12.
I agree, it was a real kick in the teeth for the UK when John Kerry described France as the USA's oldest ally
Obama has little choice having backed himself into a corner by publically showing his hand as to what does and doesn't constitute a 'red line'. Having drawn the line early he now has to do something if he is to maintain credibility and not appear as a paper tiger for the rest of his term. But paradoxically, that he can't be re-elected means that he also has the flexibility to make such mistakes.
Hollande, well, other than desperately needing a distraction from the rapidly growing pile of socialist disasters he is inflicting on his countrymen (even his ministers have come out and said they have over done it on the tax front), Syria was always within the French sphere of influence. In the WW1 era, the Levant & Middle East was "neatly" carved up between Britain, France and Russia under the Sykes-Picot agreement with lines drawn on maps that put present day Syria firmly in the French sphere of influence. The French are not getting involved out of any sudden desire to appear punchy or to get in bed with the US - there will always be a degree of distrust between them and I very much doubt this will see a sudden UK-US divorce; the French are getting involved because it suits them to do so. In foreign policy and international relations terms, an archetypal realist response.
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Has anyone told Obama/Kerry which country allowed the USA to launch attacks on Libyan bases in 1986 from its shores...........and which country denied them overflight rights?
One needs to look no farther than the Obamas first state visit as President and First Lady to to see proof of this.
Ronald,
Putin is just stating his opinion and guessing on the mindset of Assad or elements within the Syrian forces. Yes it is utter madness for such an attack but what if Putin is incorrect?
Ask yourself how much control does Assad actually hold? Who is pulling the strings behind the scenes and what about rogue elements within the armed forces? What if that rogue element carried out the chemical attacks without Assad actually ordering it? Assad as a puppet figure head could be sitting there blissfully unaware that it was elements of his forces that launched the attacks and he is being told that it was the rebels. Either that or he now knows that it was his forces, can't or won't come clean, and is simply going along with the guidance of his advisers?
Snippets from Kerry's transcript
Statement on Syria
The Senate and House will be presented with the classified brief. Putin is asking for the US to present that evidence to the UN Security Council. Under Bush junior they got it wrong with Iraq. What if Obama has it right in regards to events in Syria?
Putin is just stating his opinion and guessing on the mindset of Assad or elements within the Syrian forces. Yes it is utter madness for such an attack but what if Putin is incorrect?
Ask yourself how much control does Assad actually hold? Who is pulling the strings behind the scenes and what about rogue elements within the armed forces? What if that rogue element carried out the chemical attacks without Assad actually ordering it? Assad as a puppet figure head could be sitting there blissfully unaware that it was elements of his forces that launched the attacks and he is being told that it was the rebels. Either that or he now knows that it was his forces, can't or won't come clean, and is simply going along with the guidance of his advisers?
Snippets from Kerry's transcript
We know that for three days before the attack the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons personnel were on the ground in the area making preparations. And we know that the Syrian regime elements were told to prepare for the attack by putting on gas masks and taking precautions associated with chemical weapons. We know that these were specific instructions.
We know where the rockets were launched from and at what time. We know where they landed and when. We know rockets came only from regime-controlled areas and went only to opposition-controlled or contested neighborhoods.
We know that a senior regime official who knew about the attack confirmed that chemical weapons were used by the regime, reviewed the impact, and actually was afraid that they would be discovered. We know this.
And we know what they did next. I personally called the Foreign Minister of Syria and I said to him, “If, as you say, your nation has nothing to hide, then let the United Nations in immediately and give the inspectors the unfettered access so they have the opportunity to tell your story.” Instead, for four days they shelled the neighborhood in order to destroy evidence, bombarding block after block at a rate four times higher than they had over the previous 10 days. And when the UN inspectors finally gained access, that access, as we now know, was restricted and controlled.
In all of these things that I have listed, in all of these things that we know, all of them, the American intelligence community has high confidence, high confidence. This is common sense. This is evidence. These are facts.
We know where the rockets were launched from and at what time. We know where they landed and when. We know rockets came only from regime-controlled areas and went only to opposition-controlled or contested neighborhoods.
We know that a senior regime official who knew about the attack confirmed that chemical weapons were used by the regime, reviewed the impact, and actually was afraid that they would be discovered. We know this.
And we know what they did next. I personally called the Foreign Minister of Syria and I said to him, “If, as you say, your nation has nothing to hide, then let the United Nations in immediately and give the inspectors the unfettered access so they have the opportunity to tell your story.” Instead, for four days they shelled the neighborhood in order to destroy evidence, bombarding block after block at a rate four times higher than they had over the previous 10 days. And when the UN inspectors finally gained access, that access, as we now know, was restricted and controlled.
In all of these things that I have listed, in all of these things that we know, all of them, the American intelligence community has high confidence, high confidence. This is common sense. This is evidence. These are facts.
The Senate and House will be presented with the classified brief. Putin is asking for the US to present that evidence to the UN Security Council. Under Bush junior they got it wrong with Iraq. What if Obama has it right in regards to events in Syria?
it was a real kick in the teeth for the UK when John Kerry described France as the USA's oldest ally.
Maybe not the best or most loyal....but they were the first at a time when it mattered most to this Country called America.
Perhaps as some are saying it is the Americans who are not the most loyal and staunchest of Allies.
Ya'll do remember a bit of unpleasantness at a place called Yorktown do you not? Something about the French Navy, a fellow named Lafayette and some trespassers known as Hessians and some fellows in Red led by a guy named Cornwallis?
....it was a real kick in the teeth for the UK when John Kerry described France as the USA's oldest ally.
Why not Beagle? Are you aware of some evidence that is contrary to what he is saying or are you simply being a contrarian? I haven't made my mind up if action is appropriate, I also haven't dismissed what he's said as a lie. How have you arrived at the conclusion he is?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I wonder if France still has rights to use Akrotiri?
Out towards TPMH was an area known as French Camp and once a couple of Mirage IV and a KC135 lobbed in without warning despite Akrotiri being PPR. They made their duty-free trip to the Officers' Mess and departed having cited CENTO agreements as their authority.
So, did they have rights? Do they still have rights?
Out towards TPMH was an area known as French Camp and once a couple of Mirage IV and a KC135 lobbed in without warning despite Akrotiri being PPR. They made their duty-free trip to the Officers' Mess and departed having cited CENTO agreements as their authority.
So, did they have rights? Do they still have rights?
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Looks like the Americans are going down the same route as us and putting it to congress, I wonder if our parliamentary vote has swayed their thinking, never expected that.