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Here it comes: Syria

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Here it comes: Syria

Old 8th Apr 2017, 10:02
  #1941 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure that the list of "mice" would include: Russia, North Korea, Iran, Turkey, China and any number of minor rogue states
So is a rogue state one that threatens and invades another country ?
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 10:11
  #1942 (permalink)  

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Sorry if I'm covering old ground but, 59 Tomahawks? Are that many needed to disable an airbase? (Genuinely don't know)

Also, what is the use by date on a Tomahawk...if you get my drift...
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 12:20
  #1943 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
MJB, a quick glimpse on broadcast video showed what appeared to be an impact crater to the top of the shelter suggesting penetration before detonation.
Sputnik news agency have released a series of images from the base. Looks like some of the Tomahawks used were the TACTOM variant with the penetrating warhead? At lease one image shows the inside of one of the shelters with a hole in the roof. Obviously one shelter didn't receive a strike and the two Su-22 Fitters inside survived.

Sputnik Images media library :: Gallery

See gallery.

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Archive footage of Shayrat Airbase from April 2016. Fitters and Floggers based there.

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Old 8th Apr 2017, 12:53
  #1944 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TEEEJ View Post
Obviously one shelter didn't receive a strike and the two Su-22 Fitters inside survived.
Could be an old photo or they could have towed the SU-22 Fitters inside the shelters afterwards.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 13:03
  #1945 (permalink)  
 
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Recent news suggest there is 500 Billion Dollars Fraud and Waste in the US HUD Department.....just saying!

Yes....that is Five Hundred Thousand Million Dollars......and you think the Taxpayers give a second thought the cost of sixty cruise missiles used in this attack?



Originally Posted by Al-bert View Post
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 13:42
  #1946 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Recent news suggest there is 500 Billion Dollars Fraud and Waste in the US HUD Department.....just saying!

Yes....that is Five Hundred Thousand Million Dollars......and you think the Taxpayers give a second thought the cost of sixty cruise missiles used in this attack?
So what do you make of this Former DIA Colonel Patrick Lang, SASless?

Last edited by Al-bert; 8th Apr 2017 at 13:45. Reason: punctuation
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 13:55
  #1947 (permalink)  
 
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Of course, everyone will have seen this movie, including Trumpton?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KFwXDYhG3w
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 14:03
  #1948 (permalink)  
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TEEJ, thanks, those would be from the video I saw. Just an aside on runway interdiction.

In the Falklands the aim was runway denial.
In GW 1 the aim was to pin the aircraft down to allow them to be plinked.
In GW 2 runway interdiction was not necessary as aircraft could be plinked before they could launch.

The best counter air is kill the crews. Next best, but easier, is kill the aircraft.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 14:30
  #1949 (permalink)  
 
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Al-Bert,

Lang's credentials are very impressive and he should know what he is talking about.

That being said....without knowing far more about him it is impossible to evaluate his position on issues.

I would suggest our involvement in the areas he was responsible for reporting upon has not been what could be described as a stellar success has it?

I have said in the past some huge mistakes were made.....using a single Source to base a plan of action, failing to field sufficient forces after the invasion, and then dis-banding the Iraqi Military, Police, and Government.

That was a genuine recipe for failure.....copied from WWII and the treatment of the Germans. Even Patton saw the folly of that back then.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 14:46
  #1950 (permalink)  
 
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Peter Brookes's cartoon in The Times today.


No surprises there, then!
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 15:25
  #1951 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Al-Bert,

Lang's credentials are very impressive and he should know what he is talking about.

That being said....without knowing far more about him it is impossible to evaluate his position on issues.

I would suggest our involvement in the areas he was responsible for reporting upon has not been what could be described as a stellar success has it?

I have said in the past some huge mistakes were made.....using a single Source to base a plan of action, failing to field sufficient forces after the invasion, and then dis-banding the Iraqi Military, Police, and Government.

That was a genuine recipe for failure.....copied from WWII and the treatment of the Germans. Even Patton saw the folly of that back then.

If the good Col is to be believed, this latest Trumperation wasn't a mistake but a pre-planned deception nichts war?
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 15:51
  #1952 (permalink)  
 
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Funny how during the Obama presidency the American press reported that the "United States bombs 5 Muslim nations".

But read the papers today and they will tell you that "Trump Attacks Syria".

That cartoon of the Pentagon being responsible for the decisions versus Trump making them individually shows the exact same mentality - Trump is behind everything. We saw a similar press mindset during the Bush administration, but this time it's verging on an obsession.

Personally I have always believed that presidents do exactly what they are told.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 16:16
  #1953 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fonsini View Post
Personally I have always believed that presidents do exactly what they are told.
Yep, that's democracy for you!
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 16:41
  #1954 (permalink)  
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Fonsini, I take it you are not so ex-pat that you missed Yes Prime Minister.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:21
  #1955 (permalink)  
 
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Photo #3067785 seems to show that something got through the roof of a bunker.
Not sure how that news agency (Sputnik) got those photographs, nor their date ... ..
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:41
  #1956 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Fonsini, I take it you are not so ex-pat that you missed Yes Prime Minister.
As a former civil servant I have seen more than my fair share of "Humphreys". I once had a Surveyor (Senior Executive Officer) who went into near apoplexy because I took a taxi while on assignment in London, cost 5 pounds - the reason - I dared to pay for it myself instead of claiming it on my expenses, which I was not entitled to do because I was only carrying one suitcase and not 2, as stipulated by regulations.

So he was angry because I was supposed to claim it so he could then reject the claim.

Bureaucracy at its finest.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:47
  #1957 (permalink)  
 
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You are free to believe what you wish.....be it fantasy or not!






Originally Posted by Al-bert View Post
If the good Col is to be believed, this latest Trumperation wasn't a mistake but a pre-planned deception nichts war?
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 20:06
  #1958 (permalink)  
 
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But if the US ships would attack the Russian base, where IADS is really deployed and operated by right people, the result would be different, but there is a great probability that millions would not wake up this morning. Good night.
Along those lines... I can't understand how the missiles managed to avoid certain parts of the base where the Russians resided. Who the heck knows where they were during the operation and the projectile accuracy.

Worries me that there could have been Russian casualties and that takes the game to an entirely new and unreal level.

Either Trump is extremely clever or very naive, if the former one suspects that we aren't viewing the whole picture and that he possibly could have been working with the Russians all along, if the latter deeply worrying, and I thought Bush was a cowboy.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 21:59
  #1959 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Worries me that there could have been Russian casualties and that takes the game to an entirely new and unreal level.
Ummmmmm, the US informed the Russians of the attack hours before the attack, including the base that was being targeted. The Russians had ample time to get their folks out of harms way. No "cowboy" antics here.

And incidentally, the Russians could have warned the Syrian Air Force who could then have evacuated their aircraft. But they did not. The Russians also made no attempts to shoot down the missiles.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 22:25
  #1960 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buster Hyman View Post
Sorry if I'm covering old ground but, 59 Tomahawks? Are that many needed to disable an airbase? (Genuinely don't know).
Here's the target tally we know about:
15 concrete aircraft parking revetments
10 aircraft maintenance hangars/buildings
10 anti aircraft defense sites
7 fuel storage/pumping facilities
10 ammunition bunkers
That's 52 specific targets we know about. Some targets (like large hangars) may have had more than one missile targeted at it.

And for those nitwits who complain about the cost of those missiles, each aircraft destroyed cost 20 to 50 times the cost of the missile. 20 aircraft were destroyed. The hangars, maintenance buildings, fuel facilities, ammunition facilities, aircraft revetments, etc etc almost certainly cost way more than the missiles. Those missiles got a LOT of bang for the bucks spent.
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