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Here it comes: Syria

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Here it comes: Syria

Old 12th Dec 2016, 16:39
  #1861 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ImageGear View Post
???

How about the Crimea and Ukraine borders?

Not to get too political about what constitutes a reason for redrawing borders.

Imagegear
Those borders appear to have been redrawn when the USSR became CIS and then became Russia minus a number of former republics. That is consistent, for folks like the Armenians, Georgians, various denizens of the Farbakistans, and in Ukraine, getting the benefit of "new lines on the map" but it does leave their Russian resident populations (sometimes) in a bind (as seen up in the Baltic state) and creates problems of its own.

I guess we won't see populations transfers, as between the Greeks and Turks after WWI, endorsed by the UN as it was by the Powers That Be in Europe a century ago. I suppose that's progress?
The UN seems to have taken on the attitude that "the lines as we see them now (1945) are inviolable unless they change with our approval" are what's 'right' ... hmmm, I guess that does open a can of worms, eh?
Saddam tried to redraw some lines in 1990 (to get that 19th province back) and it didn't seem to work out for him). Putin has better success in the Caucasus, and recently Crimea. Guess who's got a permanent seat on the UNSC?
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 11:49
  #1862 (permalink)  
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Sky News are reporting the United Nations as stating that Assad forces entering Aleppo are conducting a house to house search as they advance and killing all occupants they find - men, women and children, no exceptions.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 13:56
  #1863 (permalink)  
 
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When the Bosnian Serbs did stuff like this, the UN got involved in the ground. Interesting double standards at work. Then again, per my previous comment, guess who has a permanent seat on the UNSC?
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 08:54
  #1864 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC,

I can't dispute what Sky News are saying, it does raise the question whether all this news is 'fake' to suit an agenda.

There are always 2 sides to a story. The West have a reason for this type of story to run.
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 10:06
  #1865 (permalink)  
 
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In the course of liberating eastern Aleppo, several mobile field studios were found (along with some footage) where terrorist groups and so-called "white helmets" (closely associated with them) were creating all those "horror" films. It could be seen how special people put speciaL make-up ("blood", "wounds", etc) on the faces and bodies of poor kids (even babies) invloved in the show. Then, how rehearsal took place (e.g. put poor little ones beneath the conrete plate and then "recover" out of there), then "take 1", "take 2", etc. And the same kids "migrated" from one scenario to another.
No need to say that when eastern Aleppo was liberated, no operating schools and hospitals were found there. All such buildings were used for military purpose (weapon stores, command posts, etc.).
Another fake is about "mass killings" while in reality some 100+K civilians ran to western parts to find shelter. I am rather surprised in the opposite way: the local "combatants" after they surrender and put weapons down are massively "forgiven" and let go. Only foreign merceries are "treated in the right way". I was thinking that some 10-20 years in "comfortable desert stone quarries" would be more appropriate for terrorists (provided due evidences exist on their atrocities).
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 10:18
  #1866 (permalink)  
 
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History is written by the victors A_Van, we all know that.

and it wouldn't be the first time that the truth is not the truth or the whole truth in a war zone.

There are certainly some people suffering out there.

Arc
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 10:43
  #1867 (permalink)  
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Maskirovka may work elsewhere - but not here.
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 13:47
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Arc,

You are right. Moreover, unfortunately, very often the truth is not uncovered even centures after.

Today I was using a Moscow metro (subway, underground, U-bahn, ...). There is a train there totally dedicated to Shakespeare. Nicely decorated with lots of quotes in original and Russian translation. In front of my eyes there was the following text from "King Lear":
"Time shall unfold what plighted cunning hides,
Who covers faults at last with shame derides.
Well may you prosper"

I am afraid the author (or Cordelia) was wrong in the first line when using the word "unfold" :-(
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 15:07
  #1869 (permalink)  
 
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For what has been going on in Aleppo and Syria in general, there is an independent Canadian journalist who has visited several times and actually has some first hand knowledge. She is not very complimentary of BBC and other MSM reporting.



Interesting about the 'White Helmets', who have been given some $100 million but she says that no one in Eastern Aleppo has heard of them!

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Old 14th Dec 2016, 19:56
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Its a civil war. Backed by various outside factions... its very confusing for ordinary British people to understand why our forces, sent by our Government should in any single way either interfere or be involved.
I'll nail my colours to the mast- we should not be involved and thankfully we haven't been.
I know my post is a little out of context but I still keep hearing various MPs stating why we should be involved and I disagree with them.
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 21:58
  #1871 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk-N View Post
there is an independent Canadian journalist
Independent? Journalist? There is no such thing -- she does this for money. What does exist is a journalists with a different editorial bias.


She's offering opinion as well as observation, but she's also speaking from having been on the ground over there and having seen that whole mess up close and personal a half a dozen different times. That, and her not having the editorial bias of the MSM are in her favor, big time.


I thank you for the link and I appreciate her candor. That's hard to find anymore. It's at the very least a different angle than the "corporate media" from Russia, or the "corporate media" based in various Western nations whom she excoriates in her talk. (Given my experiences with the media, I like to see the major media take a shot to the chops given how often they simply get it wrong, be it matters of aviation or military).
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 22:18
  #1872 (permalink)  
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Eva Bartlett? A long time apologist for Assad and a long time paid shill for Russia Today. Impartial? Joke, right?


https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/co...es-in-the-west

"...When there was starvation in besieged Madaya, Eva Bartlett, a Canadian writer for Russia Today,trumpeted reports claiming that the images of severely malnourished children were either fake or propaganda....."
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 22:30
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"...When there was starvation in besieged Madaya, Eva Bartlett, a Canadian writer for Russia Today,trumpeted reports claiming that the images of severely malnourished children were either fake or propaganda....."
What you mean like the Kuwaiti stolen incubators ?

White helmets celebrating with bodies of dead Syrian soldiers while holding up Al Qaeda / IS signs...............
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 06:53
  #1874 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC, the URL you mentioned is self explanatory: the accusations on that brave girl come from UK arabs who will say whatever the establishment tells them. You may also add that so called Syrian observatory and those mad folks who call Trump as a Kremlin agent.

I "googled" on the Russian Net - she (Eva B.) was once interviewed by RT, but RT interviews hundreds of different people...

By the way, the same situation with several brave US and UK journalists operating in the south-east Ukraine. They say that "corporate media" does not want even to talk to them, to say nothing about footage, interviews and other materials.

Information war is our reality.
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 09:37
  #1875 (permalink)  
 
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A very good book

https://www.amazon.com/First-Casualt.../dp/080186951X

I doubt much has changed.
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 19:19
  #1876 (permalink)  
 
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Could someone explain why the 'fighters' are allowed to leave Aleppo and move to an area to fight again?
I can seem to find anything that explains the reasoning behind this.
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 19:25
  #1877 (permalink)  
 
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They are just moving them to the next desired mean point of impact. It's a bit like weapon to target matching, just done the other way around.
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 23:02
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Around the same time, Syrian soldiers were privately expressing their belief to me that the Americans would allow Isis to leave Mosul to again attack the regime in Syria. An American general had actually expressed his fear that Iraqi Shiite militiamen might prevent Isis from fleeing across the Iraqi border to Syria.
----------
I wonder who the reporter is referring to, and where that quote comes from. I was under the impression that 'kill or capture' was the RoE around Mosul, but perhaps I am guessing badly. A source would be interesting.
Well, so it came to pass. In three vast columns of suicide trucks and thousands of armed supporters, Isis has just swarmed across the desert from Mosul in Iraq, and from Raqqa and Deir ez-Zour in eastern Syria to seize the beautiful city of Palmyra all over again.
Might they simply have caught the various forces in and around Mosul by surprise by moving *when* they did? Most of the forces trying to take Mosuls are focused on the problem in Iraq, their turf, not what's going on in Syria.
Take a look at this from an Iraqi local commander's perspective: if they flee Mosul, that's one less bunch of people I have to fight with this lashed together coalition trying to recapture the town. Don't send your precious air strikes off after those who are fleeing, I need those sorties over here. (Here being somewhere in or around Mosul.
One wonders at what went on, and why airstrikes on the moving units were not taken as attacks of opportunity?
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 07:28
  #1880 (permalink)  
 
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This is what the U.S. Commander (Townsend) had to say on ISIS leaving for Palmyra...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b89_1481779907
Calling the Syrians "Russian Proxies" was very calculating.

Is it not beyond the realms of probability that in this instance the U.S. used Daesh as their proxies? So many thousands of fighters and vehicles, traveling out of a combat zone across a desert, without being detected and countered? The excuse of being in Syria does not wash, it hasn't stopped operations there over the last few years.
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