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Here it comes: Syria

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Here it comes: Syria

Old 5th Jun 2013, 22:51
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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We should definitely not get involved in any way or form. Neither side occupies the moral high ground.
Probably the most indisputable statement so far in this whole discussion, Eclectic.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 01:27
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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to take the statement a step further, from a partisan point of view we are better off having half the muslim world trying to kick the sh!t out of the other half - keeps them (mostly) off our backs!

Taking sides would be rank stupidity. Diplomacy requires us to weep, wail and gnash teeth, etc, but for f#cks sake DO nothing.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 10:33
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Where did all this common sense come from? The UK population really does not give a toss if the followers of the religion of peace kill each other in industrial quantities. Any regime change will just substitute one group of corrupt murderous thugs for another.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:46
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Is CMD losing the plot?

His commons statement on Monday was confused to say the least.

By backing the "rebels" he's siding with AQ.

This is a Sunni Vs Shiaa fight, have they ever stopped fighting in 1300 years?????

Is Assad as bad as he's made out to be?

Assad is Iran's best ally in the region, ergo any negotiated peace would need to have Iran's backing.

This is not about democracy, the Saudi's back the "rebels" and the last time I looked Saudi Arabia was hardly a shining light of democracy.

It could be a pre-cursor for a conflict with Iran, but the pesky Ruskies have outmonoeuvred everyone by supporting Assad - my goodness, how this could so easily escalate.

CMD is heading towards Blair like rationality prior to 2003
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:33
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Very nice summary DakMan
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:39
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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fek me, someone agrees with me and the Torygraph, will have to change my opinion now.
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Old 10th Jun 2013, 22:35
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Report today was: Austria pulling its troops (360 of them) out of the Golan. The UN force in the Golan is about 1000. I seem to recall some bad things going on previously in this region when the UN bails ... cross border fighting starts.

Not a good sign, in re Syria and Israel.

Things possibly getting messier.
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Old 11th Jun 2013, 19:34
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Austrian peacekeepers withdraw from Golan Heights | New Europe
Austrian peacekeepers withdraw from Golan Heights By Karafillis Giannoulis | June 11, 2013 - 2:32pm


The Austrian peacekeepers in the demilitarised zone of Golan Heights are withdrawing from the area due to safety reasons and a lack of freedom of movement.

The tension is rising in the Golan Heights, as the Syrian rebels seized the Quneitra crossing late last week in an incident that injured two of the UN peacekeepers. After the incident, Austria announced its intention to remove its troops from the area.

On 11 June, al Jazeera reported that the Austrian peacekeepers left Golan Heights and headed to the main UN base on the Israeli side. Austria is expected to remove all of its UN Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) troops sent in the area later this month. At this point it is important to emphasise that the EU Member State contributes about one-third of UNDOF in the Golan Heights.

On 7 June, the members of the UN Security Council had expressed their concern at the escalation of tension in the Golan Heights. Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant of the UK said that the UN Department of Peacekeeping Operations (DPKO) is currently looking to engage with countries, able and willing to increase their troops in the Golan Heights and fill the gap that will be left by the Austrian withdrawal. According to Grant officials from DPKO, “will also be looking at the possibility of new troop contributors and getting them into the theatre as soon as possible, at the same time as trying to encourage the Austrians to slow down their departure from the theatre and dissuade any other current troop contributors from withdrawing troops.”

Grant stressed that it’s important for UNDOF to continue his key role in guaranteeing the 1974 ceasefire disengagement agreement between Israel and Syria. Therefore the presence of UNDOF in the Golan Heights, a region which was captured by the Israeli forces during the 1967 Six-Day War, remains extremely crucial for the prevention of any spill-over effect.

The gradual withdrawal of the Austrian peacekeepers is not the first, as Japan and Croatia have also withdrawn their troops in recent months as battles between the two Syrian sides had spread into the ceasefire zone.

Russia has declared its willingness to fill the gap in the Golan Heights but the 1974 UN international agreement that created the UN force in the area, doesn’t allow any member of the UN Security Council to participate in the mission.

Last edited by GreenKnight121; 11th Jun 2013 at 19:36.
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Old 13th Jun 2013, 13:09
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Syria death toll at least 93,000, says UN

BBC News - Syria death toll at least 93,000, says UN
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Old 13th Jun 2013, 14:44
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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I can't help but wonder if our governments and other gulf states didn't send weapons, advisers and combatants to the 'rebel' then this war would have been over a long time ago and the death toll would have been significantly reduced.
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Old 13th Jun 2013, 14:49
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed, our political leaders seem determined to leave us with blood soaked hands no matter what.
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Old 13th Jun 2013, 20:48
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Well, I think anyone who follows public commentary on daily press reports will see, there is little appetite for supporting Hague or Cameron in supplying weapons. However, like Bliar before them, selective "recognition" of the people's wishes will obviously come in to play. What I do believe is that the people with the "blood on their hands" , will be the ones that push for supplying arms, against the wishes of joe public.

Smudge
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Old 13th Jun 2013, 20:52
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Smudge, you're not the Shakyboat Smudge that did the (in)famous Smudge disapperaing trick on the ML2 course are you?

Last edited by Dak Man; 13th Jun 2013 at 20:53.
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Old 13th Jun 2013, 22:51
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Dak Man,

Sorry mate, I've watched many, silly in my opinion, "shaky boats" people jump out of my perfectly serviceable aircraft, but doubt I would ever have the temerity to claim to be one. Shaky - maybe, especially these days, boats - not as long as there's an alternative. Or are you referring to the, "Im just going to check something on the roof of the aircraft, don't let the loadie put the hatch back in"?

Smudge (ex Airman, not Royal Marine)

Last edited by smujsmith; 13th Jun 2013 at 22:53.
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Old 14th Jun 2013, 12:16
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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So, as predicted, the Western allies in this folly are going for a no fly zone (or maybe two, one along the Lebanese border and one along the Turkish border).
It will be interesting to see how they implement this.
The day one SEAD phase will be interesting against such a strong integrated air defence.
It will be interesting to see which forces "our" side deploys. Presumably from a mixture of carriers and Akrotiri.
Will they go OTT (as usual) and pre-emptively take out the Syrian airforce on the ground?
Will Israel just sit there and watch? And what will Iran do?
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Old 14th Jun 2013, 13:49
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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I am sickened and ashamed at the UK and USA for doing this. Its none of our business and all this talk of chemical weapons reminds me of Iraq 2003, yet another lie.
If only the Russians and Chinese would do more to stop this imperialism, maybe one day they will! I hope the rest of the world understands its not the majority population in the UK/USA who want this but a ruling elite who are very far removed from reality.
Handing over Syria to a bunch of radicals is a very bad idea, giving said people weapons and training is also a very bad idea.

Moscow unconvinced by US evidence of Syrian chemical weapons use ? RT News

US to give military support to Syrian rebels as ?red line' crossed ? RT News
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Old 14th Jun 2013, 14:27
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Govt says today no decision taken....which presumably means RAF operations in support of Al Qaeda start sometime soon. Best of luck boys!
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Old 14th Jun 2013, 17:03
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for clarifying Smudge.

When I think about Syria and the Middle East in general, I'm always mided of the interview that Gen Wes Clark gave a while back.

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Old 14th Jun 2013, 20:05
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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General Clark ... I guess he was wrong about the seven countries in five years, eh?

I'll suggest to you that he was leaving a lot out of that story.
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Old 14th Jun 2013, 20:27
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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You just can't help but get that horrible feeling that all of our politicians are off on a military adventure that they feel they can always blame on, intelligence reports, military can do attitude etc etc. We see real proof that the vast majority of the "bosses of Westminster" (us) have no interest in becoming involved in this conflict. I also ask, that should an indigenous grouping within UK decide to "kick up" against the government, would we be obliged to support them with weapons, and (as Mr (I was in the Air Force)) McCain says, Air cover and a chance to make their point. I suspect that we are off on another expedition to "big up" the political agenda. When it goes wrong they will blame the Army, Navy and Air Force. More than 90 % are said to be against any involvement into Syria, why do the politico's persist? I do have a feeling of Deja vu.
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