Here it comes: Syria
Turkey shot down Syrian helicopter at border, Deputy PM says
The Turkish Air Force shot down a Syrian helicopter today at the border after the helicopter violated Turkish airspace, Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç said.
Turkish military aircraft taking off from a base in Malatya shot the M-17 helicopter after it allegedly continued to violate Turkish airspace despite repeated warnings, after which the chopper fell onto Syrian soil, Arınç said.
It [The helicopter] violated Turkeys border for two kilometers. It was repeatedly warned by air defense elements. Upon the continuation of the violation, it was determined that it fell into Syrian territory after being shot at 2.25 p.m. with a missile by our planes taking off from Malatya, Arınç said.
The Turkish Air Force shot down a Syrian helicopter today at the border after the helicopter violated Turkish airspace, Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç said.
Turkish military aircraft taking off from a base in Malatya shot the M-17 helicopter after it allegedly continued to violate Turkish airspace despite repeated warnings, after which the chopper fell onto Syrian soil, Arınç said.
It [The helicopter] violated Turkeys border for two kilometers. It was repeatedly warned by air defense elements. Upon the continuation of the violation, it was determined that it fell into Syrian territory after being shot at 2.25 p.m. with a missile by our planes taking off from Malatya, Arınç said.
'Twould be a sad irony if the helicopter was being flown by defectors trying to get away from Assad ...
Payback's a bear, isn't it? 
I am reminded of the RoE I was offered (as a friendly) by the guy in charge of AAW (ships with surface to air missiles chareged with air defense, USN style) off of the Lebanese coast, early 1980's.
"Squawk or die."
He was mostly referring to making sure one's mode 4 was operating. It appears the Turks have taken his position and cranked it up a notch.
The deputy prime minister said the initiative taken by the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) to shoot down the Syrian helicopter was based on the rules of engagement with Syria. The countrys rules of engagement changed after Syria shot down a Turkish plane in June 2012. Turkish officials did not publicly announce details of the revised rules of engagement, but some reports claimed Turkish forces would fire on any Syrian forces approaching within five kilometers of the Turkish border on the Syrian side.
I am reminded of the RoE I was offered (as a friendly) by the guy in charge of AAW (ships with surface to air missiles chareged with air defense, USN style) off of the Lebanese coast, early 1980's.
"Squawk or die."
He was mostly referring to making sure one's mode 4 was operating. It appears the Turks have taken his position and cranked it up a notch.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 16th Sep 2013 at 17:28.
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Eclectic
Good to see that you have suddenly remembered to include the 2 million Christians.
Perhaps you could explain the logistic strategy and the devastating impact of relocating tens of millions of people against their will, into areas that they really dont want to live in. It's a bit like moving the population of Coventry into the Gorbals.
On second thoughts - perhaps it's not a good example. Lady Godiva's ancestors might enjoy being relocated...
Good to see that you have suddenly remembered to include the 2 million Christians.
Perhaps you could explain the logistic strategy and the devastating impact of relocating tens of millions of people against their will, into areas that they really dont want to live in. It's a bit like moving the population of Coventry into the Gorbals.
On second thoughts - perhaps it's not a good example. Lady Godiva's ancestors might enjoy being relocated...
Link to UN report
'Report on the Alleged Use of Chemical Weapons in the Ghouta Area of Damascus on 21 August 2013'
http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf
'Report on the Alleged Use of Chemical Weapons in the Ghouta Area of Damascus on 21 August 2013'
http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf
Red On, Green On
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'Twould be a sad irony if the helicopter was being flown by defectors trying to get away from Assad ...
"The helicopter then violated Turkish airspace, encroaching two kilometers (1.2 miles) into in Hatay's Yayladağ district while flying at around 14,200 feet"
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
I am reminded of the RoE I was offered (as a friendly) by the guy in charge of AAW (ships with surface to air missiles chareged with air defense, USN style) off of the Lebanese coast, early 1980's.
"Squawk or die."
He was mostly referring to making sure one's mode 4 was operating.
"Squawk or die."
He was mostly referring to making sure one's mode 4 was operating.
Only goes to prove my old point. I'd rather be lucky than good.
Analysis from Eliot Higgins 'Brown Moses' on the unidentified munition referenced in pages 18, 19 and 20 of the UN report.
Unfortunately direct links to (b l o g s) can't be posted so see link or use the following as a search
'Brown Moses Who Was Responsible For The August 21st Attack?'
'Detailed Diagrams Of The Unidentified Munitions Linked To Alleged Chemical Attacks in Damascus'
https://plus.google.com/108344897173120412718/posts
UN report link
http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf
Unfortunately direct links to (b l o g s) can't be posted so see link or use the following as a search
'Brown Moses Who Was Responsible For The August 21st Attack?'
'Detailed Diagrams Of The Unidentified Munitions Linked To Alleged Chemical Attacks in Damascus'
https://plus.google.com/108344897173120412718/posts
UN report link
http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf
Courtney, what year were you there? 
Hmm: maybe our low and slow was part of our risk profile. Light civil "kamikaze" fly about where a helicopter (we could do upwards of 135 knots) does. Maybe we were more of a threat then go fasters
unless identified. Memory a bit fuzzy on that, but I seem to recall something about the Cessna with a bomb during the inchop brief, or that class of threat.
In other news, over a thousand Syrians died via conventional means last week. Good thing no poison gas was used, eh?
The bloodletting is likely to get worse, not better
So, where is the sainted Seymour Hirsch when you need him? Seems he can't find this story, so someone else has to.
A Song of the Civil War or The Song Every and Any Civil War?
Hmm: maybe our low and slow was part of our risk profile. Light civil "kamikaze" fly about where a helicopter (we could do upwards of 135 knots) does. Maybe we were more of a threat then go fasters
unless identified. Memory a bit fuzzy on that, but I seem to recall something about the Cessna with a bomb during the inchop brief, or that class of threat. In other news, over a thousand Syrians died via conventional means last week. Good thing no poison gas was used, eh?
The bloodletting is likely to get worse, not better
So, where is the sainted Seymour Hirsch when you need him? Seems he can't find this story, so someone else has to.
At a base near Tehran, Iranian forces are training Shiite militiamen from across the Arab world to do battle in Syriashowing the widening role of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard Corps in Syria's bloody war.
The busloads of Shiite militiamen from Iraq, Syria and other Arab states have been arriving at the Iranian base in recent weeks, under cover of darkness, for instruction in urban warfare and the teachings of Iran's clerics, according to Iranian military figures and residents in the area. The fighters' mission: Fortify the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad against Sunni rebels, the U.S. and Israel.
Iran's widening role in Syria has helped Mr. Assad climb back from
near-defeat in less than a year. The role of Iran's training camp for Shiite
fighters hasn't previously been disclosed.
The fighters "are told that the war in Syria is akin to [an] epic battle for Shiite Islam, and if they die they will be martyrs of the highest rank," says an Iranian military officer briefed on the training camp, which is 15 miles outside Tehran and called Amir Al-Momenin, or Commander of the Faithful.
The training of thousands of fighters is an outgrowth of Iran's decision last year to immerse itself in the Syrian civil war on behalf of its struggling ally, the Assad regime, in an effort to shift the balance of power in the Middle East. Syria's bloodshed is shaping into more than a civil war: It is now a proxy war among regional powers jockeying for influence in the wake of the Arab Spring revolutions.
The busloads of Shiite militiamen from Iraq, Syria and other Arab states have been arriving at the Iranian base in recent weeks, under cover of darkness, for instruction in urban warfare and the teachings of Iran's clerics, according to Iranian military figures and residents in the area. The fighters' mission: Fortify the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad against Sunni rebels, the U.S. and Israel.
Iran's widening role in Syria has helped Mr. Assad climb back from
near-defeat in less than a year. The role of Iran's training camp for Shiite
fighters hasn't previously been disclosed.
The fighters "are told that the war in Syria is akin to [an] epic battle for Shiite Islam, and if they die they will be martyrs of the highest rank," says an Iranian military officer briefed on the training camp, which is 15 miles outside Tehran and called Amir Al-Momenin, or Commander of the Faithful.
The training of thousands of fighters is an outgrowth of Iran's decision last year to immerse itself in the Syrian civil war on behalf of its struggling ally, the Assad regime, in an effort to shift the balance of power in the Middle East. Syria's bloodshed is shaping into more than a civil war: It is now a proxy war among regional powers jockeying for influence in the wake of the Arab Spring revolutions.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 16th Sep 2013 at 20:37.
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Lonewolf, your song reminds me of one of the saddest and most played at the time, it was banned by the BBC.
It was based on the story of Sgt Michael Willets GC
Michael Willetts | ParaData
..
It was based on the story of Sgt Michael Willets GC
Michael Willetts | ParaData
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 16th Sep 2013 at 20:35.
Nutloose: poignant. Thank, had not heard that tune in ages.
Link to image of the radar track released by the Turks. Image too large for direct insert.
http://www.tsk.tr/3_basin_yayin_faal...13/ba_17/1.jpg
The following is from a post on Key Mags forum with a translation of the Turkish General Staff information.
Potential Syrian War - no fighter involvement? - Page 5
http://www.tsk.tr/3_basin_yayin_faal...13/ba_17/1.jpg
The following is from a post on Key Mags forum with a translation of the Turkish General Staff information.
Turkish General Staff issued an announcement and added the radar track history regarding the incident:
1. The Syrian Mi-17 was first detected as possible intruder and immediately tracked by the Diyarbakir CAOC at 1341, while it was 26nm from the border.
2. CAOC repeatedly issued warnings to the helicopters until it was 5nm to the border.
3. The helicopter intruded Turkish airspace at 1425 near Guvecci Gendarmerie Post at Yayladag, Hatay province at 14,200ft and 2km depth.
4. Two F-16C's that were on CAP nearby were diverted to intercept the helicopter.
5. The helicopter was shot at 1427 and crashed at 1km within the Syrian side of the border
1. The Syrian Mi-17 was first detected as possible intruder and immediately tracked by the Diyarbakir CAOC at 1341, while it was 26nm from the border.
2. CAOC repeatedly issued warnings to the helicopters until it was 5nm to the border.
3. The helicopter intruded Turkish airspace at 1425 near Guvecci Gendarmerie Post at Yayladag, Hatay province at 14,200ft and 2km depth.
4. Two F-16C's that were on CAP nearby were diverted to intercept the helicopter.
5. The helicopter was shot at 1427 and crashed at 1km within the Syrian side of the border
Well looking TEEEJ's picture of the TU radar plot, I would say that is an unfortunate shoot down. Helo flying at a reported 14200 feet, I would assume flying visually (not sure of the moving map and GPS fit of the Mi-17) strays a short distance over the border (not difficult to misident valleys from 14000 feet and 2km would be what? 60 secs of flying time?), does not appear to be doing anything hostile (has anyone seen any reports of demonstrating hostile intent?) and is shot down.
And 2 minutes from crossing the border to being shot down! Not much time for an intercept, VID, followed by the internationally recognised interception signals (fly alongside, waggle wings etc etc) - no, straight to shoot down. And close enough to the border for the helo to crash on Syrian territory.
Looks more like revenge for the Syrian shootdown of the TuAF jet a few months back.
And 2 minutes from crossing the border to being shot down! Not much time for an intercept, VID, followed by the internationally recognised interception signals (fly alongside, waggle wings etc etc) - no, straight to shoot down. And close enough to the border for the helo to crash on Syrian territory.
Looks more like revenge for the Syrian shootdown of the TuAF jet a few months back.
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 17th Sep 2013 at 08:59.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And it would still open up the Kurdish question where they want bits of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey etc.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Turkey expects no retaliation after shooting Syrian helicopter
Underlining that a Syrian military helicopter shot down by Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) on Sept. 16 had violated the Turkish air space on purpose, not mistakenly as claimed by the Syrian military, Turkeys Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said on Sept. 17 that they expected no retaliation from the Syrian regime.........
Turkish generals son killed in Ankara
The son of a Turkish Air Force major general and his girlfriend were shot dead before the building complex where they live in Ankara on Sept. 16.
Unknown assailants shot Göktuğ Demirarslan, 24, and his Russian girlfriend Elena, 23, seven times with a pump rifle at 11.30 p.m. in Ankaras Eryaman neighborhood. The couple died immediately. The attacker fled the area and is still at large. ............
Underlining that a Syrian military helicopter shot down by Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) on Sept. 16 had violated the Turkish air space on purpose, not mistakenly as claimed by the Syrian military, Turkeys Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said on Sept. 17 that they expected no retaliation from the Syrian regime.........
Turkish generals son killed in Ankara
The son of a Turkish Air Force major general and his girlfriend were shot dead before the building complex where they live in Ankara on Sept. 16.
Unknown assailants shot Göktuğ Demirarslan, 24, and his Russian girlfriend Elena, 23, seven times with a pump rifle at 11.30 p.m. in Ankaras Eryaman neighborhood. The couple died immediately. The attacker fled the area and is still at large. ............
How very convenient for the Syrians that after the release of the UN chemical report a video appears out of the blue? A new Live Leak and You Tube Channel was created to host the video. The video claims to show Jihadists on the 21st August launching the same munitions featured in the UN report. Somehow I don't think that the weapons inspectors will find any of these unidentified weapons when the Syrians allow them access? Does anyone else think that there will be a lot of double checking of inventories and documentation going on at the chemical weapons storage facilities? 
The claim of how this video surfaced from the video description.
UN report - Munitions recovered feature from Page 18 (Appendix 5)
http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf
The claim of how this video surfaced from the video description.
- September 15. Kurdish Peshmerga killed three Syrian terrorists on border. They found a cell phone in a pocket. Night bombing video there. Terrorists on video wear gas masks. Video was shot August 21. One terrorist name it Storm operation.'
UN report - Munitions recovered feature from Page 18 (Appendix 5)
http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf
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Anyone who has watched a few Syria videos knows these are fake.
The rebels are Allah Akbaring continuously throughout every genuine video.
But then Assad and Putin lie continuously.
The UN report says Assad did it, without writing down the words.
The rockets came from regime territory.
And the sarin was very pure (remember it degrades quickly) which only the regime have the infrastructure to achieve.
Brown Moses pours more scorn on it here: http://brown-moses.********.de/2013/...l#comment-form
The rebels are Allah Akbaring continuously throughout every genuine video.
But then Assad and Putin lie continuously.
The UN report says Assad did it, without writing down the words.
The rockets came from regime territory.
And the sarin was very pure (remember it degrades quickly) which only the regime have the infrastructure to achieve.
Brown Moses pours more scorn on it here: http://brown-moses.********.de/2013/...l#comment-form
Last edited by Eclectic; 17th Sep 2013 at 12:31.