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Here it comes: Syria

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Here it comes: Syria

Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:23
  #741 (permalink)  
 
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I just saw a piece on RT saying that neither Jordon, Iraq or Egypt will allow military action against Syria to be launched from bases in their nations or over flights of their territory.

My faith in MPs has been restored a little, I am proud of this country for not doing anything. I hope the French people can stop Hollander and the American people can stop Obama.

Even though Labour did the right thing, what a bunch of hypocrites they are. I suppose one can say they went with public opinion which is a good thing. But I don't like them and never will. Good seeing the look on some of the Tory faces though, ha ha!
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:24
  #742 (permalink)  
 
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and yes, if we can now scale down our military inventory to reflect our new 'policy'
Me thinks that we had already done that
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:27
  #743 (permalink)  
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the current British Politians' military crusade mentality
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:29
  #744 (permalink)  
 
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Never thought I would see the day when MP's actually did something right...for whatever reason.
'Call me Dave' is well out of touch with popular opinion.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:46
  #745 (permalink)  
 
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Yep - shame they didn't have the moral conviction to do the same 10 years or so ago.

America has got itself in a proper tangle over this. I can quite imagine the conversations with their Sunni allies in the ME "So you overthrew the Iraqi regime for allegedly possessing WMD, and supported the overthrow of Gaddafi who was just about to start the industrial slaughter of his people, yet in Syria, where Assad is flagrantly using WMD and killing his people in their 10s of thousands, you decide to what, exactly?" The ghosts of of previous justifications loom large...
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:53
  #746 (permalink)  
 
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We'd need to get the UN going again. If it can be blocked all the time it's useless. Bring back diplomacy for your daily dictator business and keep the military as a true last option.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 12:03
  #747 (permalink)  
 
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yet in Syria, where Assad is flagrantly using WMD and killing his people in their 10s of thousands
A tad subjective. Has anyone seen concrete evidence that Assad is using WMD (rather than the possibility that it was the FSA) and that "his" WMD are killing people in "their 10s of thousands"?
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 12:10
  #748 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever your feelings about victories for democracy etc there isn't any cause whatsoever to feel happy. Completely innocent non-radical people are going to be killed and one of two awful choices will eventually win by attrition because they are the only ones who have backers.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 12:12
  #749 (permalink)  
 
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If this level of evidence was available 10+ years ago, do you think the US et al would have leapt upon it, even if there was even a degree of uncertainty? Its far more compelling than anything they/we came up with at that time.

BTW I said 'and' not 'to' i.e. making the connection between Iraq and Libya.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 12:15
  #750 (permalink)  
 
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Just wondering why Saudi just doesn't just march on in to Syria, which the help of the gulf states? They didn't hesitate when Bahrain looked like it was going to wobble. Bunch of weeners if you ask me, scared of a fight - WTF did they buy all that shiny kit for?

Editted to add: surely they could collectively fund a western private military endeavor, backed by their air forces. I'm sure the likes of Aegis, KBR etc would happily oblige.

Last edited by dead_pan; 30th Aug 2013 at 12:18.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 12:18
  #751 (permalink)  
 
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Because the uniforms look good!
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 12:28
  #752 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hanoijane
You may well consider him [Galloway] to be so, but if you'd followed his advice you wouldn't have been part of the stunningly successful Iraq adventure, would you?


If we had followed anything he said, we’d have had British troops disobeying orders and foreign fighters rising up against British Forces in Iraq.
You want me to follow advice from someone who is reported to have said:
“I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life.”

"Hezbollah has never been a terrorist organization!"

That a suicide bomb attack on the British Prime Minister“would be morally justified.”

To Saddam Hussein “Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability”.

Of Assad, “For me he is the last Arab ruler, and Syria is the last Arab country”.
I think I’ll seek council otherwhere.


Last edited by Courtney Mil; 30th Aug 2013 at 12:34.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 12:28
  #753 (permalink)  
 
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We have shed enough blood in the name of Arab/Islamic democracy and our leaders have not yet fathomed out the fact that what exists is not a political problem which can be solved by political plus military means. The problem is CULTURE - whoever rules in Damascus will have come from the same brutal sectarian,tribal background as the previous incumbent.After about 20 years in the M.E.I came to the conclusion that there really is nothing that can be done by outsiders short of killing off the whole population and starting again.It will take generations to make a difference,leave the buggers to get on with it.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 13:06
  #754 (permalink)  
 
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MPs voted under the voice of the British Public the news tells us?

Well, after all the unwanted immigration caused by the last wretched Labour lot, one wonders 'who' that great British Public now is? We have been infected with European queasiness for conflict by allowing an open borders policy. This is just the start of the slow erosion of the British way of life just to appease politicians' egotistical whims...

Last edited by Grimweasel; 30th Aug 2013 at 13:07.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 13:13
  #755 (permalink)  
 
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Lets write a letter to Syria telling them we are very very cross. Seems to be all we are capable of.
Someone remind me how much oil Syria produces for the world market?
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 13:17
  #756 (permalink)  
 
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How very inconvenient this democracy business is, Grimweasel!
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 13:21
  #757 (permalink)  
 
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Courtney,

“I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life.”

It certainly was the biggest catastrophe for the UK defence force budget.

"Hezbollah has never been a terrorist organization!"

He's correct, it's a political party. Its paramilitary wing is rather naughty though. If you have trouble grasping the difference, think Sinn Fein / IRA.

That a suicide bomb attack on the British Prime Minister“would be morally justified.”

Well, I could never support such a statement, but I see where he's coming from. Why not ask the relatives of those who died pointlessly in recent wars how they would feel about the moral justification of such an action?

To Saddam Hussein “Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability”.

Quite. And, looking at Iraq now, don't you wish he was still there, albeit having had his ears boxed and taught how to behave in a reasonable manner?

Of Assad, “For me he is the last Arab ruler, and Syria is the last Arab country”.

I think you'll find this was said more in the vein of a prophecy than a statement of admiration.


Courtney, you have the right to seek council from whomsoever you wish. But I would respectfully suggest you choose advisors with a track record of making wise choices in difficult times, even if you dislike the cut of their cloth.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 13:25
  #758 (permalink)  
 
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Quite a lot of hyperbole in the press today about this signalling Britain's much reduced role in the world. Maybe a debate on that role is needed BUT all the vote really did is signal that, quite reasonably, the bar for undertaking military intervention has been set higher following Iraq and A'stan - and given the dogs breakfast that the Syria situation is, with no good guys on either side, no conclusive proof (in the public domain) on who used the chemical weapons, lack of clarity as to the strategy and valid concerns as to what the outcome would be, it all added up to a perception that the situation was dodgy enough not to warrant intervention at this stage.

Can't help feeling that it's being flagged as a diminution by those that have long wanted to see such a diminution - ie the wish being the father of the thought - whereas in fact it was democracy working.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 13:48
  #759 (permalink)  
 
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I listened to some of the debate and TBH the Govt side was a complete dog's breakfast - the only way we could intervene (lawyers!) was if we did something that immediately helped the HUMANITARIAN crisis - no regime change, no threats no.........

I think parliament got it right - the case for intervention, and what the results would be, was never made
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 13:48
  #760 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Frostchamber View Post
. . . lack of clarity as to the strategy and valid concerns as to what the outcome would be,
Ah yes, Selection of the Objectives

then not forgetting to Maintain the Aim

and Logistics

and Adminstration

At least one thing the forces usually get right, left to their own devices, is Administration.
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