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Here it comes: Syria

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Here it comes: Syria

Old 22nd Jun 2013, 12:30
  #221 (permalink)  
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Very sad loss of the crews. Bunch of damn terrorists.
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 12:34
  #222 (permalink)  
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"there are now 700 British Moslems in Syria fighting Jihad"

No, there are "now 700 British Moslems in Syria learning and perfecting Jihad" prior to returning the skills to the UK.....
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 12:42
  #223 (permalink)  
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Two from this morning:

They may be dated this morning but I'm pretty certain they are recycled older videos pumped out by "FSA" propagandists. I've been watching videos from this conflict closely for some time and I'm certain I've seen both of those a while ago, just trying to pin down when.

Interestingly the number of videod attempted shoot down of helos has plummeted of late. Which could mean a few things, either Assad is running out of crews or Helos OR he is preserving what he has due to the threat level. Also there has been a marked increase in FW activity and strikes....
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 12:43
  #224 (permalink)  
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I hope they all got their passports stamped when they arrived so they can be refused re entry.... Ahhhh wishfull thoughts..

Poor buggers in those Helicopters, don't forget although war some little kid somewhere will be crying because daddy didn't come home tonight.

Last edited by NutLoose; 22nd Jun 2013 at 12:44.
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 13:33
  #226 (permalink)  
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The UN is not convinced of Chemical weapons use by Assad. Russia is not convinced.

No proof who used chemical weapons: UN

Maybe by keeping the war going and supporting the 'rebels', it's the only way Britain can get rid of their home grown extremists without the racist, anti- freedom tag. don't worry those terrorists we support now will find their way back to the west but now with proper training.

I think the US is jumping on the in to justify this.
US training Syrian rebels 'for months'
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 13:38
  #227 (permalink)  
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Sick of hearing about this allu snackbar character.

In all seriousness, the opposition can go to hell. Anyone who supports or cosies up to AlQ can especially go to hell.Lets not forget the attrocities they (AlQ) commited in Iraq, executions using hand drills, beheaddings, use of chlorine gas against school kids, this and a whole host of other frankly barbaric acts. Didnt one of them get video'ed eating the organs of another human being recently?

I dont buy that just Assad has been using chemical weapons and I dont buy that the "freedom fighters" havent been commiting attrocities to get media attention for their "cause".

This is a civil war fought on the grounds of ethnc cleansing. By all means, protect the innocent who have been caught between the crossfire, but lets not get into a regional proxy war where there can be no winners.
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 13:51
  #228 (permalink)  
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Problem is, you can't protect the innocents when the crossfire is still going on. At the root of this is not a desire to get involved on either side per se, but the problem of whether involvement will stop said crossfire. My take is that any foreign intervention will just get both sides shooting at you, and the innocents will still get killed.

As perhaps with many civil wars, the only options for the innocents are to flee the warzone or to cease being innocents and choose sides.
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 14:27
  #229 (permalink)  
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Lavrov slams US, UN for undermining Geneva peace talks on Syria ? RT News

I would go as far as saying Assad is almost a saint compared to most of the rebels!
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 14:32
  #230 (permalink)  
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Rather than a complete no fly zone, perhaps the un, Russians, Chinese and west could support a safe zone on a borderland of Syria that could be policed to keep both Syrian opposing sides out? This would allow said civil war to continue, but kept contained from the rest of the populace who Desire a war free, pitiful existence? It would need an international police force and the ability to use lethal force to ensure its not used as a smuggling route for weaponry into the country.

There are issues with soverignity etc and where you use as safe zone, but surely Assad and the rebels, if they have an ounce of humanity, could support such a proposal whilst they go at each other hammer and tongues?

Last edited by VinRouge; 22nd Jun 2013 at 14:35.
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 21:10
  #231 (permalink)  
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Remember the Abu Nidal Organisation some decades ago? Their stated aim was 'the destruction of Israel and the uprising of the Islamic world in total revolution'. Not much has changed since, has it? If the UK government does send arms to the rebels I will renounce my citizenship.
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Old 22nd Jun 2013, 21:39
  #232 (permalink)  
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I was just watching Billy Hague on TV. I can't remember the last pollie who was so enthusiastic to "get involved" and seemingly so frustrated by public opinion. My concern is that "public opinion" is what puts him in his job. Now, and I know I may be being naive, why do we have to go through the [email protected] of this kidology ? For some reason, Cameron, Hague and no doubt other, like minded, weapons manufacturers, are already thinking of their increasing bank balances and rubbing their mitts together. So, announce it and take your chance with the plebs. But that would require a bit of honesty, not a term oft bandied about at the palace of Wasteminster.

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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 07:48
  #233 (permalink)  
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Judging by Hague's apparent glee in arming the terrorists, I am sure he will give a heroes welcome back to the 700 UK radicals who have joined the Jihadists. Perhaps he has already prioritised that they will get the weapons first!

I have always been a ardent Conservative supporter, but this current bunch are totally beyond contempt. As untrustworthy and slimy as Blair and Brown.

Where is the conclusive proof that Assad has used chemical weapons, and not the Jihadists?

We have entered a dark time with a very uncertain final outcome for the Middle East and Europe. There will be many more aircraft blown out of the sky, other than Syrian.
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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 11:31
  #234 (permalink)  
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"Friends of Syria" meeting agrees to provide support to the rebels to "enable them to

Syria: 'Friends' Agree Urgent Rebel Support
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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 11:47
  #235 (permalink)  
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There is a theory that the West not supplying weapons has radicalised the conflict.
For two years the FSA has been starved of everything they need. Meanwhile the extremist nutters of al-Nusra have been amply supplied by Saudi Arabia & the Gulf States. So very many troops on the ground switched from FSA to al-Nusra.

What is for sure is that the biggest problem for the West coming out of Syria has been the huge growth in al-Nusra. Their being equipped with modern weapons and receiving lots of training and military experience. And their further radicalisation of large numbers of young men from all over the world, including from the UK. Syria is now a breeding ground for the very worst kind of islamic terrorist nutter. Once the Syria conflict is over they will turn their resources against the West.

Hopefully Mr Jones from Hereford will prevent the British ones from returning home.
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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 22:32
  #236 (permalink)  
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Re "Mr Jones from Hereford". I'm with you on that, but it would require a little "prior planning and previous communication", something our current Wasteminster jokers seem bereft of. Seriously, Hagues incessant ranting and, seeming, ignorance of public opinion does little to endear him or his chums to my sympathies.

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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 22:47
  #237 (permalink)  
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Hague was out of his depth as a snotty teenager at the tory party conference all those years ago...............nothing in history since has altered that fact.
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Old 24th Jun 2013, 01:38
  #238 (permalink)  
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And all that goes back to never having had a proper job, MP's shouldn't be allowed to stand until they have had 10 years work experience in the real world, it might stop all these stupid laws we get and the ever increasing paperwork.
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Old 24th Jun 2013, 09:16
  #239 (permalink)  
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The social media is the only way to follow events inside Syria. Our old fashioned mainstream media are doing a bad job. They don't report most stuff and when they do they are well behind events on the ground.

There is a blogger who has created a meta resource of all the social media he can find. This is an amazingly rich, possibly definitive, source of events in Syria in near real time.

If anyone is interested here it is: http://brown-moses.********.ie/2012/...-listings.html

Oops! The PPRuNe website software is censoring the url!!!!
Look up Brown Moses Blog on Google. Then look at Other Links in the right hand column and click Syrian "Youtube Channel Listings".

Last edited by Eclectic; 24th Jun 2013 at 09:23.
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Old 24th Jun 2013, 19:02
  #240 (permalink)  
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LW50, regail us of what you're suggesting he left out.
Dak, when you understand that in the clip presented he was speaking politically, I can assure you that he edited his tale very carefully to present a particular story. That is what smart people (and Wesley Clarke is quite bright) do when they operate in the political arena. What is put out by pols and "the truth" often have a delta between them. Not just an issue with W Clarke.

You will also note, hopefully, that there was a considerable time lag between what he related and his speaking about it in public. Years, in fact.

Think, Dak. Why do you suppose that was?

Beyond that, I know quite a few folks who worked in the Pentagon around the time between 9-11 and the serious Op Plan prep for Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Their take is similar but different to his version of what went down within the Pentagon: the contingency plan for going back to war in Iraq (I was in a CPX or two that modeled it, early-mid 90's) which had been prepped and revised frequently for about a decade, was move to "make an op plan." Why? Because it takes for freakin' ever to put a plan that big together and then get it blessed.
Now, why did the J3/J5 folks have to do that? Someone wanted the option to activate the contingency plan. In that regard, what W Clarke was narrating was very, very old news. Ancient, actually.

For me, at the time, it was to note that the first iteration of the con plan to op plan to go forward got General Shinseki set aside, because he told the truth to politicians in power. That's what he got for doing his job.

Anyway, you are free to believe whatever you want to believe, and with your previously demonstrated bias, I am sure you will. Look up the term "confirmation bias" and I think you'll understand what I mean.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 24th Jun 2013 at 19:19.
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